Trump isn’t an icon of positive masculinity. He also did very little for young men during his four years as president
The US will get the leader they deserve.
Too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences as well while they have no say in the matter.
Nor does half the country. I just don’t understand why trump appeals to young men at all. He’s just some horrifically uncool geezer.
Because all of the aggrieved male content on yt, TikTok, podcasts, etc. There’s an entire normie-to-nazi pipeline ffs, and the social media algorithms continually promote stuff that’s just slightly more “edgy”, and suddenly kids have gone from Joe Rogan to Andrew Tate. Because all of the white males behind social media - spez, Zuckerberg, Musk, etc - agree with that content and continue to find excuses to “free speech” it.
Those boys should put in more work getting laid. And that’s only a partial joke.
The incel thing drags them in, step 1 into the pipe. The can’t get laid, must be something going on they can’t put their finger on, but that thing is damned sure someone else’s fault.
“I’m white, OK looking and I’m a nice guy!” The unspoken question, the unthought question, is, “What happened to my privilege?” For past generations, life seemed to work out well enough for white guys, but it sure as hell isn’t working out for me!
Demographic shift has been wild in my lifetime. Too young to have experienced this, they get a feeling that something nebulous has changed, for the worse. They see minorities of all stripes stepping onto a more level playing field and then tune into YouTubers saying, “Yes! Now you get it! The other is the thing you didn’t realize was holding you down!” Well god damn, now it all makes sense!
Back to getting laid, the fun part. Nothing like a good screw to smooth those rejected feels. You’re wanted, wanted as a man. But if they think going hard-right is going to land them some pussy, oh boy… The few women in that scene are strictly for the alphas! Your beta ass won’t even get scraps.
Dated quite a bit couple of years back. That was an education. Few women had political statements in their profiles, but many wrote something akin to, “I’m not interested in politics.”, often followed by a lovey, flowery sentence to lighten the mood. Men: This is code for, “Don’t come at me with your Trump bullshit.” Yes, apparently guys often pull that horsepucky on the first date. These woman are screening for conservatives, they ain’t gonna hear it. Talking on the phone to a potential date (who I ended up dating for a few months!),
“(laughing) Yeah, I’m a bit of a redneck.”
Silence. Wrong thing to say there, buckaroo.
“…uh, just how redneck?”
“I loathe Trump if that’s what you’re getting at.”
“Oh, whew! Just checking, can’t be too careful these days.”
tl;dr: We need to get the word out to these young men, “This crap you’re watching is anathema to getting laid.”
Pair that with white males feeling entitled to things (mostly money, women, and even friends) and society currently being set up to keep them away from those things. They’re rightfully angry, it’s just their anger is being directed at the wrong things.
Look at 99% of media before 2001 AD. White male hero. Star Trek TOS was a giant ground breaker showing Uhura, but all the real critical leaders were males. Think on this; the James Bond movie Thunderball has a scene that’s pretty much rape; they were selling little kids’ toys based on that movie. There’s a John Wayne movie where Wayne throws someone else’s kid into a river to teach the boy how to get over his fear of water.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Muhammed Ali did more in real life than Clint Eastwood ever did in all his movies put together; guess which one these folks admire?
No offense, but I’d safely bet maybe 0.1% of current generation young men have watched any of those movies. This article is primarily talking about younger Gen Z folks (18-30), so people born 1994-2006. These males specifically consume idiot social media personalities vs old school macho man movies from the 50s and 60s.
This is what these young men and their fathers consume. And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
How the fuck do they think Trump is macho?
I’m a zoomed so I can confirm you completely failed to bring up any media relevant to Gen Z, and Star Trek TOS and Ali are closer than Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Bond.
And Trump plays to that. He’s a macho hero who plays by his own rules and doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Except he’s not. He’s a lard-assed con artist, appearance-obsessed but ridiculous: fake hair, fake tan, trying to exaggerate his height and hide his obesity, a bully, a coward, a liar, and anyone who’s seen the video of him grovelling in Putin’s presence wouldn’t say he doesn’t take crap from anyone. He’s a servile, fawning toady who would have been nothing without his daddy’s money. If this society were a meritocracy, he’d be pounding farts out of shirttails in a steam laundry in New Jersey, if he could be employed at all.
You’re not paying enough attention if you think Trump winning means “too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences.” Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII, France had a massive right wing that is now in the EU council, Austria… well they keep making shitty right wing choices, down into South America Argentina shifted right, and other countries continue to do so as well. We’re not special or alone in this.
Oh I’ll definitely give you that! My own little corner of the world has been ruled by fairly hard-right nutjobs for over a decade, and while not quite as dramatic as elsewhere, almost all metrics for a positive society have gone down, except employment. We too suffer from insurmountable housing costs and low wages, which is not a coincidence at all.
almost all metrics for a positive society have gone down, except employment.
In other words, all the metrics have gone down.
(Employment is only a positive metric when the alternative is poverty, not self-actualization. The notion that being employed is intrinsically good is some elitist/authoritarian bullshit rooted more in keeping the working class too scared and busy to demand better for themselves than anything else.)
You’re not paying enough attention if you think Trump winning means “too bad the rest of the world will feel the consequences.” Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII,
There were elections in two states in the east of Germany last weekend. In one of them the far right party AfD gained most votes compared to others. In the other state they finished second largest. There is nothing decisive however. Other parties have been called to set up a firewall “Brandmauer” to prevent the AfD to govern.
France had a massive right wing that is now in the EU council, Austria… well they keep making shitty right wing choices, down into South America Argentina shifted right, and other countries continue to do so as well. We’re not special or alone in this.
Exactly. In the last few decades Austria , Turkey and Hungary were among the first to shift to far right party based governments in Europe. An interesting read is this book by Turkish journalist Ece Temelkuran (Who fled the country) which is about Turkey going downhill from democracy to dictatorship. This book also reflects on Trump winning in 2016. At some point also Poland had a far-right government but the damage from that is slowly being repaired by a new government. By now among others Slovakia, Italy and the Netherlands have far-right government coalitions. Outside Europe there was Bolsonaro in Brazil. Still, Trump winning (legally or not) would be bad for the rest of the world, especially for Ukraine.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII
In one German state, Thuringia. That’s the German equivalent of Mississippi. It’s bad, but not bad on the national level yet. In France, the FN (the extreme-right party) lost in the run-off, though their leader has been pretending to be less of a jackbooted thug than her father, the previous FN leader.
You’re correct that the return of fascism is a global problem. If something were to happen to Putin, many of those rightwing parties would collapse back into the squabbling gangs of hooligans and racist goons they were before they started getting Russian advice, funding and help from troll farms. That’s why Russian propaganda outlets like RT and Sputnik have been so anti-Harris. They know Trump will sell out Ukraine and gut NATO, and that’s the only way Putin can keep his job and his head.
Germany just elected their first far right government since WWII,
This is very misleading
I get this way of thinking, but just to be clear: the US didn’t get the leader it deserved when Trump “won” the first time, despite receiving millions of fewer votes than Hilary. And almost certainly here, even if Trump “wins,” he will have gotten less votes.
That’s because there is a 2-3% bias in the current presidential electoral system, the Electoral College. We’re founded under a “1 person, 1 vote” ideology that our elections ignore.
So yes, I get the frustration. But we (the sane people) are all in this together, and the majority of voters in the US appear to still be sane, even if that doesn’t win the election by default. Solidarity would be the better move here.
In 2016 voters had the excuse that they didn’t know how a Trump presidency would play out. They don’t have that same excuse in 2024. Anyone who votes for him knows what they’re doing. If he wins, even with electoral college shenanigans, it will be a symptom of a much deeper malaise than just Trump.
Yes, I agree with all of that. But “there’s a bigger problem” or “Trump voters know who he is” isn’t the same as “the US got what it deserves.”
I’m specifically taking issue with “deserves.”. “Deserves” implies Trump represents the US, which would only be true if the majority of the US (or US voters) chose Trump. We didn’t.
We’re founded under a “1 person, 1 vote” ideology that our elections ignore.
I think the EC is an outdated system that needs to die, but it was explicitly created because they didn’t want presidential elections to be one person, one vote. There is no ignoring here, it’s by design.
It was explicitly created because they wanted presidents to be chosen by state legislators, not the general public at all.
I agree on the history, so “founded on” was wrong on my part.
But arguably the current “one person, one vote” standard controls. The Equal Protection clauses of the 5th and the 14th amendments are incommensurably in conflict with the electoral college. As between them, since the Equal Protection clauses (at least the 14th Amendment) are more recent, those arguably supersede in case of conflict.
That’s my reasoning anyway.
I agree with everything you’re saying, except:
We’re founded under a “1 person, 1 vote” ideology
At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, delegates debated between Congress choosing the next president vs a straight popular vote. The former risked corruption between the legislative and executive branches, and the latter gave too much power to the uneducated, sometimes-mob-esque populous. After several debates, a compromised was reached - electors. These intermediaries wouldn’t be picked by Congress or elected by the people. Instead, the states would each appoint independent electors who would cast the actual ballots for the presidency.
Overall, though some founders agreed with a “1 person, 1 vote” ideology, they were not the majority… unfortunate though that was.
Instead, the states would each appoint independent electors who would cast the actual ballots for the presidency.
In other words, like having Congress do it, but with added Federalism by giving it to the state legislatures instead of the federal one.
The “Electors as intermediaries” part was wasn’t directly about reducing corruption, because having the state legislators choose would’ve already solved that. The only trouble was that “one state legislator, one vote” wouldn’t work because different states set up their legislatures differently and with varying numbers of constituents per legislator, so they needed a sort of ‘compatibility layer’ to compensate for those differences and the solution was having state legislatures appoint Electors.
Trump did very little for anyone. Unless you’re rich.
Even then it’s not like it was intentional. He only did it for himself, it’s just that other rich people also coincidentally benefited.
Yeah Trump is very simple - he punishes anyone who doesn’t actively support him and rewards anyone who does. Anything he does for anybody is simply to show others that if you’re good to Trump, he’ll throw you a bone too.
He spends so much time performing for his base to ensure he has enough political power for that system to work. Once his base gets bored of him he’ll be nothing.
I knew guys running their own businesses that benefitted from the 2017 tax breaks. Unfortunately, the dumb fucks didn’t notice those were temporary from the outset and staged to revert back after the next presidential election. And those tax breaks directly give Republicans the excuse to say “we don’t have money for all these social programs.”
Every gen Z kid I know is having an issue trying to pick a pro-Palestine candidate. They seem to dislike Biden more than Harris, but I have never heard of trump support. I’m sure some amount of gen Z are trumpers but they are a minority, saying young male voters are “flocking” to trump is pretty silly. “There are literally dozens of us!”
You should educate them on the dangers of single-issue voting. Pro-life has kept the Republican Party afloat for decades.
I’ve thought very hard about doing this. I used to be the same way and have changed my thinking. The problem is I don’t think I can properly articulate this because 1. I am still trying to swallow that pill 2. I would just feel like a hypocrite so I wouldn’t be able to deliver properly.
I do encourage others who do have the capability to try to point out the issues with single-issue voting.
The unfortunate truth is that neither Harris nor Trump is good for Palestinians, however there’s certainty that Trump will be worse. Voting third-party with enough momentum may change things over a long period of time, but that won’t help Palestinians now.
So if it’s a given that either Harris or Trump will be President next year, it’s either about weighing the other important issues, or accepting the candidate that hasn’t called for the eradication of Palestinians after removing restrictions on Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory.
I hate to say this, but you’re probably living in a bit of a bubble. I know I was.
A lot of men, across all age ranges, tend to lean fascist. There’s a lot of reasons for this, but the core problem is that progressive neoliberalism does a terrible job speaking to cis-het male anxieties, while fascism welcomes them with open arms.
It’s all bullshit, of course, but at least they’re being heard.
Progressive politicians really need to let the 1990s go. Third-way triangulation worked great then, but it’s ineffective now.
This exactly. The destruction of third spaces under Reagan was either a genius move to radicalize lonely, isolated Americans or a hell of a coincidence that ended up helping the right.
I say it could be a coincidence because idk if Reagan’s administration was looking quite that far ahead but… They were crafty and very intelligent people.
This process began long before Reagan. I think it started with the automobile manufacturers, and General Motors in particular, in their war on public transit.
The death of the streetcar brought with it the death of streetcar suburbs and mixed-use zoning, which was the foundation upon which most third places rested (neighbourhood pubs, cafes, and barber shops).
Anyway, definitely watch that video if you have the time. Compare the vast landscapes full of roads and parking lots with the old-fashioned neighbourhood of Riverdale, with its narrow streets and cozy houses huddled together on small lots. It’s easy to see which one is more conducive to community, civic engagement, and good government. The car-dependent landscape looks like some dystopian nightmare by comparison.
Would you mind expanding on this? The idea piqued my interest, but couldn’t find information on that connection when looking for myself.
progressive neoliberalism does a terrible job speaking to cis-het male anxieties
Terrible is a bit of an understatement. Men complain about bleak social and economic prospects only to be meet with insults that go right to the metaphorical jugular of every mans ego.
bleak … economic prospects
Except Trump voters were more likely to be small business owners.
How is it that the left isn’t discussing inequality enough for these guys? That’s a load.
https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/the-five-types-trump-voters
On economic issues, Staunch Conservatives and the Free Marketeers share an overwhelming opposition to tax hikes on the wealthy, business regulation, and government-provided health care. They have high levels of social trust in other people and worry less about whether the system is rigged. They also take conventional conservative positions on the environment and on cultural issues like same-sex marriage.
Staunch conservatives make up 31% and Free Marketers make up 25% of Trump voters, that’s majority.
Further the high levels of social trust displayed by the staunch conservative set speak to them having successful lives. You don’t end up with high levels of social trust if you are beaten down, can’t find work, and people act like you just aren’t trying hard enough. The staunch conservatives also deny climate change, which is harder for young people who are experiencing pollution and hot, dry summers to deny.
So the majority of Trump voters are older conservatives with comfortable lives.
American Preservationists have low levels of formal education and the lowest incomes of the Trump groups — and non-Trump voters as well. Despite being the most likely group to say that religion is “very important” to them, they are the least likely to attend church regularly. They are the most likely group to be on Medicaid, to report a permanent disability that prevents them from working, and to regularly smoke cigarettes. Despite watching the most TV, they are the least politically informed of the Trump groups.
By contrast, the “poor” group, American Preservationists, only clock in at 20% of Trump voters. This lie that they’re all pushed to Trump by economics when the “poor” group is also the uneducated group you’re gonna have a hard sell on proving to me that they even understand enough about economics to be upset about it. Or, barring that, whatever they’re upset about they still don’t actually understand with enough depth to really be making an informed decision.
Either the young men are truly in the minority or they are working long overnight shifts and not actually heading to the voting booth when they get off work. In the latter case, they aren’t a meaningful political bloc if they don’t vote.
I’d go a step further than that. It’s not all bullshit.
If right at the moment that young men are starting to figure out, hey it’s important to make some money, it’s important not to be a coward, I think I’m gonna start working out and waking up early and keeping my house clean, hey I think at least some of these people I see who are downtrodden by life are at least partially responsible for their own situation and problems and I don’t wanna be that way… if right at that exact moment all the left has to offer them is getting in their face and saying NO NO NO, FUCK YOU THAT’S ALL WRONG TRANS RIGHTS VEGAN CAT FOOD FUCK YOU ARARGBGLGLLGLGL then they’re not gonna wanna join with the left. The left is going to seem stupid and crazy to them, and for a certain segment of the left, they’ll have a point about that.
Trump like all fascism is a malicious lie which will bring them only misery. But just being conservative (like authentic conservatism) in your viewpoint isn’t automatically wrong or “the enemy.”
I really do think you nailed it. There is a certain contingent - most especially online, I think - that are just very toxic to any kind of reasonableness and are telling anyone that hasn’t won a very specific set of Oppression Olympics that they need to sit down and just listen, that their opinion doesn’t matter (unless it’s just to parrot what is being said by this very radical fringe), that their experiences and feelings don’t matter, only those at the top of the Oppression Olympics pyramid matter. They are also told there are no greater human experiences, everything has to be sliced up and subsegmented into things (vs. universal truths and universal conditions of humanity, etc. that unite us) and all the “old white man” canon is to be discarded, etc.
Again, I think this is mostly online stuff, but if someone is young and finding their way and especially if they are lonely, they are going to be online.
For a prime example of this, I’ve said this before, check out the comment section on Boing Boing. Boing Boing used to have a very fun and vibrant comment section. Yes, it was liberal. Now, it’s bordering on oppressive. Don’t believe me? Try taking a position that is one iota different than the mods and ringleaders on the forum now. If I was the impressionable and uniformed sort, I would see something like that and think all liberals/leftists are like this and seek some other groups out.
I think groups like that do more to create Republicans and Nazis than almost anything else.
but you’re probably living in a bit of a bubble.
That’s pretty fair and probably pretty accurate, what I will say is I live in a deeeeeep red state but most of my interactions are with post college gen Z so that almost certainly skewes it toward the left.
A lot of men, across all age ranges, tend to lean fascist. There’s a lot of reasons for this, but the core problem is that progressive neoliberalism does a terrible job speaking to cis-het male anxieties, while fascism welcomes them with open arms
Yeah I try to explain this to people who aren’t white males, it’s definitely a big issue. I didn’t mean to downplay this particular issue, and make no mistake I do view it as a major issue, but I do view this as a pretty fringe group % wise. Now that can definitely change very very rapidly but I personally haven’t seen it trend towards that yet, I would say the white male -> fascist pipeline started in the mid 2010’s and while it’s grown gen Z seems to ,as a whole, still be very very progress.
Obviously this is all biased in my opinion and experiences which isn’t a good indicator of reality but I do hold this opinion until I see/read something which can change that.
That’s because the US is not only deeply polarized by party affiliation, it’s deeply segregated regionally by political stripe. Look at how few “swing states” there are and how all the rest are “solid red” or “solid blue.”
Increasingly, people know and have personal contact with fewer and fewer members of the other side. We’re witnessing the creation of the Morlocks and the Eloi, groups that neither interact with nor understand one another to the point of being separate species.
The segregation is more on a county level, though. Every state has red and blue counties.
It’s probably a regional and demographic issue. I’m in Canada in Ontario and our province elected a conservative leader even though we are known as a very liberal/ center/ even left bunch we got a right wing party leading us.
All our highly populated cities and towns with majority populations elected center or left parties … almost all the rural areas elected the right-wing party.
The thing that tilted the balance was apathy. Not enough people voted. If enough people everywhere had voted, we would have had a center or even a left party leading. But because not enough voted, the right leaning rural areas were able to out balance the few left/center leaning cities.
The thing that wins elections in Canada and the US is general apathy. If you can cut down the number of voters, you have a better chance of deciding who will get into power.
I don’t think Trump has the interest of literally any of his voters at heart. He’s only interested in helping himself and he legally can’t even vote for himself.
Edit: TIL Trump can still vote.
Florida (Trump’s home state) Law:
a felony conviction in another state makes a person ineligible to vote in Florida only if the conviction would make the person ineligible to vote in the state where the person was convicted.
New York (State of felony convictions) Law:
a person convicted of a felony is disenfranchised only while incarcerated for that felony.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/can-trump-vote-now-he-has-felony-convictions
Should be noted that young male voters are some of the least reliable voters to turn out. Yes, he’s gone hard on the Joe Rogan demographic with his pandering. Yes, its working (because… advertising works!) No, I don’t think its going to be a winning strategy in the end, because them hoes ain’t loyal.
Unfortunately that was just wishful thinking. I had to confirm and according to Florida and New York state law, he will be about to vote unless he ends up being incarcerated in New York at the time.
To be fair I think felons and imprisoned folk should be allowed to vote.
Why not just kick them out of the country if you are going to disenfranchise them like that?
