You wouldn’t pirate a medicine, would you?
I would if I could!
I will say, there’s something scary about crafting your own medicine, I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
The things they write in the article are amazing, people can make their own life savine cure to hepatitis C for about 70 USD for their whole home made treatment, that just works? It seems too good to be true without any caveats.
Oh and, final thought, “Four Thieves Collective”? They really don’t beat around the bush. I like that
Four Thieves vinegar was supposedly used by four grave robbers to protect them from bubonic plague, each thief added their own herb to the infusion. It apparently worked well enough, they negotiated their freedom by giving up the recipe.
Nowadays, people vary the herbs, garlic is the constant.
It’s no secret herbs like oregano (most savory herbs actually) have antimicrobial properties. When you’re poor and a doctor’s visit is a day or more lost pay, the daycare is paid regardless of attendance, then the uninsured cost of the visit and pharmaceuticals, you learn.
It certainly sounds like it should be more difficult than that (and as far as I, a non-medical professional, know it is) but keep in mind the pharmaceutical industry is worth billions to a select few, and keep in mind back when Eli Lilly’s Twitter was hacked and posted insulin, a substance that costing some people over $1000/month just to live, would be free, their stock dropped 4.37% the next day.
Like I said, I’m no medical anything but like with previous products that have claimed to be medically beneficial, I think it’s worth at least taking a step back and looking at what someone stands to gain by claiming something vital is simple versus what those who claim otherwise stand to lose.
After all, I think we’ve all heard the story of the doctor who, in a fit of desperation, cured his wife’s cancer with bicarbonate of soda and then did so with more of his patients before being sued by Big Pharma.
Hack? It’s not even that. Just musk in his infinite wisdom enabling pay-to-get-checkmark on Xitter so all the fake/satire accounts immediately jumped on the opportunity.
Oh, was that it? I’d heard someone had hacked the EL Twitter account. That’s even dumber. Thanks for the correction and highlighting how much dumber the fallout was, luckily my misunderstanding didn’t take away from the main point.
The CLR (the reactor to create the medicine) costs about US$300-500 to make according to their website. Then there’s actually figuring out the software. They don’t sell recipes,as it were, so there’s time involved as well.
I’ve been poking around their site tonight after I saw this posted to another community. It’s worth looking at, imho.
I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.
You’re not wrong—all of 4TVC’s work is extremely dangerous. Not as dangerous as you’d think, though. And, compared to living a life crushed by debilitating disease or debt, do those risks outweigh the outcome? Probably not.
It is easy to make if you have the know how and some equipment, also if it is already known what you need to make. For example, aspirin is known structurally (unless I am mistaken), so if you have the chemistry know-how and equipment, you can make your own.
However the tricky part is to get it as a safe medicine to take, that you do not have impurities that could be dangerous, toxic. You will need to be able to make quality and safety checks like that. Which I am not sure how easy that really is.
White willow bark and devil’s claw root contain naturally occurring salicylic acid, similar to aspirin. Better, but it tastes funky.
Nothing wrong with homemade medicine. Just know what you’re doing. I’ve used many, on myself and now adult child. Grandparents on both sides taught me. Their’s taught them. I’ve used comfrey to heal deep wounds on friendly strays.
Along the same line of pain management did you know that pretty much all the poppy seed (for ornamental flowers) you can buy at any garden store are opium poppies? You can grow them easily, then macerate the whole plant and extract in off the shelf alcohol and strain it for essentially laudanum which is great for a sleep aide or pain in low to moderate doses. Quite safe as well, obviously if you don’t abuse it.
As a European, this looks insane to me.
Capitalism working as intended though, undercutting the competition and all that.
I’m a process chemist. I do this sort of thing for a living.
These guys don’t even know why what they’re suggesting is so dangerous. Do not do any of this.
I’m a quality chemist. I test the API’s that process chemists make to be sure they’re right. Yeah, reactions don’t always proceed as intended. These guys do understand the risks, and are only trying to provide an option. Here in the US the insurance companies are perfectly willing to let us die because funding expensive treatment hurts their bottom line. Unless you’re independently wealthy, a small scale reactor at home may become the only option a person has available. Definitely risky, but why not take the chance when corporate America has determined you’re not valuable enough to save?
Hey guys, many other countries have figured out that healthcare doesn’t have to be a privatized, for-profit nightmare. Perhaps that’s an option worth exploring.
Plenty have been fighting for it, but there’s an uphill battle against “but that’s socialism and socialism is evil!” and those that personally benefit financially who stand in the way.
You’re ignoring the fact that it’s nearly impossible to implement this right now. Big pharma and numerous politicians want to keep the status quo for as long as possible. By the time we have more affordable medicine, numerous people would have suffered greatly or died because they couldn’t access the medicine they need. Having solutions that don’t require an entire rework of the healthcare industry is necessary so that we can save as many lives as possible.
Isn’t medical tourism a thing in the US too; like you can fly to a developing country, get your treatment done by top specialists there and fly back to US and the cost would still be lower than what it would have taken to do in home country.
It’s not even funding the expensive treatments, it’s not charging a 1000x markup hurting their bottom line. It’d be one thing if it were genuinely expensive medicine (i would still propose a distribution method other than “capitalism”) but it’s not.
If these meds were available for a reasonable price i don’t think we’d be seeing groups like this.
Quite frankly, the contamination from pesticide and polluted air, water and dirt on everyday foods (and of course my herbs) are a bigger concern. They’re ubiquitous and unavoidable, now, thanks to big business and apathetic, time-constrained, overworked individuals. So I’m not that concerned by home remedies, although I really only trust my own. Some herbalists/root medics add turpentine to their remedies, for internal use. So I’ll stick to my own or vetted suppliers.
I’m not disputing the reasoning behind why this is important. But “it is important” does not imply that their solution is the right one.
There really should be better options, but it’s where this country is currently at, where some home chemistry is something people would have to consider. You’re right, it’s dangerous and certainly has a lot of risks. With some background in it myself and access to resources that the general public doesn’t have, I would still be hesitant to try something I’d cooked up in the basement at home. But, I’m also not at the point where I’m going to die from a treatable but unaffordable disease.
But the right solution is inconstitutional and anti-corporate! Even socialist and maybe even “woke”! So, this is the option TPTB are leaving us with.
Don’t like it? The second most useful thing to do compared to this is to ready your guillotine. That is the language they understand.
Could you elaborate a bit?
People make and take illicit drugs all the time. What’s the difference here?
People make illicit drugs chock full of impurities all the time too, and it fucks people up.
There are standards for purity on pharmaceuticals. Impurities have to be ridiculously low. Lower than you can measure in your garage.
These dudes either don’t know you need to even measure purity or have decided that it’s inconvenient and are ignoring it.
Or, and hear me out, they know what the risks are and have assessed that they are reasonable when the alternative is death? I do disagree with them asserting they are higher-quality though, or I would at least like to see incontrovertible proof of that.
Yeah that was my first thought too. While I kind of get the spirit of it, in practice this is so absurdly dangerous IMO. Even if someone has the best possible intentions, there are so many things that could go wrong with this, especially if you include things like long-term effects that aren’t immediately apparent, or interactions with other drugs, especially if you’re taking other home-made pills with potentially unknown ingredients. While it can be frustrating to hear about a promising new medicine that won’t be available for years, there’s a reason why they spend so long testing these things.
IMO the better (but much more difficult) solution is reforming the medical industry so that it’s easier for people to see a doctor and actually afford to get medicine. I’m not usually a fan of big government stuff, but medicine is one of those things that just needs to be kept under supervision I think.
As someone with a chemistry background I’m surprised you think the industry even takes half these precautions for our current drugs.
Not even talking about ‘state of the art’ meds here were talking the plastics from cars that’ve been around since the 60’s is under studied (but hey its sponsored by oil money so its ‘safer’)
The global medical community had to beg the US to ban lead from consumer products like paint and gasoline for close to 80 years and our politicians kept taking bribes from lobbyists to ignore medical science… But did we learn from that and ban lobbying? Nope, lobbyists are now bribing politicians to ignore the plastic epidemic and global warming
I think these guys might be able to hack through the process and get stuff done and think getting other people to follow them will be trivial as well. But just because they didn’t mess up, doesn’t mean other people won’t. A large majority might end up hurting themselves if they follow in their route.
Or if your access would be bullshit constrained.
Endocrinologists fuck up hormone dosages on a regular enough basis that transfems will buy the estrogen powder, convert to injectable solution, and do it themselves.
I’m a dumbass. I don’t do this sort of thing for a living. Do you think it will ever be as safe as properly manufactured and prescribed drugs?
I firmly think this would be a boon for many people; owning one of these is likely a lifeline that even small town physicians could utilize to dispense drugs freely or cheaply to patients in need.
This is something that I think small-town pharmacies could use to create compounds in cases of drug shortages. I think tools and programs and small labs like what are discussed in the article are a positive force for good; and that they should be not only allowed, but encouraged, for many drugs that are expensive, unavailable to someone in need and can be readily synthesized safely with a basic college level of chemistry training by someone in a pharmacy.
I think the potential risks and downsides are small right now; and I think more of it should be encouraged gently so that we can find out quickly what the flaws and limitations are so that we can put regulatory guardrails around it so that people do not harm themselves.
Yeah, one of the meds they talk about making is Vyvanse. That’s having a serious national shortage right now due to a combination of the DEA and corporate greed. It’s illegal for compounding pharmacies to make it but there’s no technical reason they couldn’t. Same for lots of this stuff.
So uh yeah as we all know a lot of amphetamines have already been “open source” for a long time.
And we also know the DEA really doesn’t approve of private production… Vyvanse itself only really was created as a produg because of their control of the amphetamine market and their desire for products with lower abuse potential.
If we could get the DEA out of the way anyways, it would make more sense to just make dextroamphetamine as it’s simple, cheap and effective.
It’s funny because a lot of people really like Vyvanse (that is: lisdexamphetamine) better than the alternatives. It was only made because the DEA wanted fewer people to take regular amphetamines and then a bunch of people responded well to it and the DEA went “wait! Not like that!”
Anyway, it’s on generic now. The only reason there’s a shortage is the DEA.
(Before you say “I’m not in the US and we have a shortage, too!” the drug companies killed all their production lines because the DEA basically gave them an excuse to try to force people off Vyvanse and onto meds that were still under patent.)
That would be great. My insurance was already not covering Vyvanse super well, but I at least had the extra coupon thing from Vyvanse that was getting it under $80 per month. But the start of this year Vyvanse stopped the coupon since there was a generic and my insurance was also pushing that. Which I didn’t realize was a thing until I was about a week and a half past my refill and just kept getting auto calls from Walgreens that it was delayed.
Found out it was because the generic was on back order and they literally didn’t know when they (or any location in my county or the next one over) would even get it. So I had to demand that they just fill the name brand since I can’t function at work. The pharmacist was like “It will be over $200, are you sure you don’t want to wait?”. And all I could say was “Not like I really have a choice atm if I want to have my meds.” Which while the price was (and still is) fucked. I am glad I didn’t just keep waiting. I just said to put it on my file that I request the name brand if the generic isn’t available.
It does seem that the insurance has also seen this happening to a fuck ton of people as they are back to at least covering what they were before. Which is still costing me around $125 or so a month since Vyvanse didn’t re-instate their coupon. I had thought about going back to Adderall, but it doesn’t last as long and I have heard there have been shortages for both name brand and generic before Vyvanse and its generic.
Man, in lots of places the you can’t even get the name brand so at least there’s that.
I have heard, don’t know how true it is, that hospital pharmacies have first shot at the supplies so they’re less affected by stuff like this. For what that’s worth.
Ok this is pretty cool, I just don’t know if I would trust it yet. I was actually thinking about the concept a bit ago, that I really don’t know what I’m taking if my doctor prescribes something to me… I do really like the concept, though.
