From the guy’s own mouth.
Literally nowhere in these remarks does it say “expansion” or “expansionism”…
You know synonyms exist right? And “enlargement” and “expansionism” are cleary synonyms in this context.
The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that. The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO.
What he’s saying is that Putin doesn’t get to dictate which alliances sovereign nations can join.
“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.”
“Don’t allow others to join your defense pact or we’ll demonstrate why it’s necessary in the first place.”
Perfectly sane logic. Nothing strange.
Yes, in 2004 and 2014 by covert and “diplomatic” US forces.
This has never been about sovereignty and always about maintaining hegemonic imperialist control.
Except that OP is trying to frame the invasion as justified when the reality is that Putin thought he could bully his neighbors. NATO predictably went “fuck off” and that somehow means bombing Ukrainian children was unavoidable.
If you are against bombing Ukrainian children, then you should probably be cheering on what Russia is doing, since it stopped exactly that.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/ukraine-unguided-rockets-killing-civilians
I don’t see it like that - I see it like assigning any blame at all to NATO, which it does deserve, to some degree.
A fair number of bombings have been attributed to defective Ukrainian munitions…
Ahh yes, NATO, an alliance well known for respecting sovereignty. That’s why they invade and bomb any third world nation with a sovereign project against US interests…
And how did these nations join NATO post cold war? Surely there was no manipulation of the sovereignty of Eastern European nations at that time right?
And do NATO countries have sovereignty themselves, or are they just US vassal states? Be honest here, because the answer is quite clear. It’s gotten to the point that the US can bomb the gas pipelines of another NATO country (see nordstream) and nothing can be done about it. And every NATO country has to buy US weapons systems, engage in specific international training exercises, etc. Very sovereign.
Let’s be clear, realpolitik is all there ever was, and all there ever will be in geopolitics. The “sovereignty” of every nation on the planet is subject to this. Unless you want to do the Turkey/Cuban missile crisis again. There’s a reason Mexico can’t join BRICS, there’s a reason Cuba can’t claim Guantanamo bay as theirs, etc.
Sovereign nations like Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, and Cuba, right?
… right?
The closest thing to the lie you wrote is the part where it says Putin demanded that NATO stop recognizing Ukraine as a sovereign country. So he’s invading Ukraine because NATO didn’t allow him to annex Ukraine Anschluss and annexation of Sudetenland style. And if you think that would help, remember that appeasing Putin over Georgia and, effectively, over Crimea and Donbass didn’t do shit to stop his aggression.
Besides the document implies what was already obvious, which is that, before the war, Ukraine wasn’t even going to be allowed into NATO any time soon, NATO countries just couldn’t sign an agreement that would limit Ukraine’s sovereignty.
What is the fascination with historically illiterate liberals trying to equate everything they don’t like to Hitler?
Putin invaded Ukraine, because he doesn’t want nukes 800 km from Moscow. If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand what is happening here.
Putin invaded because he’s an autocratic piece of shit that wants to bully smaller countries into increasing his own wealth and power. I don’t expect a pro Kremlin stooge to understand anything happening here though.
Sure, geopolitics doesn’t exist, it’s all just this craaaaaayzee guy twirling his evil mustache. It’s not like the Russian government has any say, or that almost everyone in it not only support the SMO but many of them think Putin is too soft on Ukraine and should commit much more of their military to it. It’s not like over 70% of the Russian public also supports the SMO and Putin’s decisions, saying they should never make concessions to return the Donbas to Ukraine. I mean, it’s not like most of the world aside from the propaganda-steeped NATO countries also side with Russia with respect to the conflict. Nope. None of that. Just that one maniacal power hungry madman!
https://www.eiu.com/n/russia-can-count-on-support-from-many-developing-countries/
lol. It’s so funny these fucking dweebs who can’t understand the world beyond a simplistic Saturday-morning-cartoon kind of analysis with Putin being this season’s villain.
“Everyone around me is arming themselves. Better stab the one that hasn’t got a weapon because I agreed to defend them a while back. That’ll fix it.”
Yes but you see, no country has declared war based on the threat of nukes.
Quarantines are, of course, different. As are special military operations. Of course.
Oh they haven’t? India-Pakistan conflict did not happen then. The Cuban missile crisis didn’t happen either. I guess the US hasn’t been trying to kill Iran’s nuclear program with drone bombings and assassinations either.
I’d say open a book, but I don’t think you have the capacity to benefit from it.
Tankies everywhere in this post lol
Welcome, stay a while and chat with us. You can expand your horizons or you can go back to reddit where anti-imperialist analysis and opinion are censored.
Lmao I’m a leftist and was never censored in 12 years on reddit. Give me a break from your victim complex.
You shit stain tankies can keep on sucking authoritarian dick tho.
There is nothing in this that reflects the title. It’s nothing more than passive propaganda. They are relying on people to just read the title and not open the link.
What is actually said is:
And let me just end by saying that this reflects the political reality that nations are sovereign. Nations decide themselves, and Ukraine has of course the right to decide its own path. And it’s up to Ukraine and NATO Allies to decide when Ukraine becomes a member. Russia cannot veto membership for any sovereign independent state in Europe.
Actually he also said (in the link):
“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.”
“If you don’t promise to stop making new friends, I’m going to kill another one.”
NATO is not a friend or friendly force, it is one of the great evils of our time, anyone arguing otherwise just wants to bomb third world countries.
Ask the citizens of Libya and Iraq how defensive and friendly NATO is.
The process of “joining NATO” is not anything equivalent to making friends, any country joining NATO essentially becomes a vassal for US interests. There’s a reason why Sweden and Finland held out for so long.
“If you invite your serial killer gun nut friend to build a tree stand on your property pointed at my house, we’re going to have problems”
Some Presidents should stick to declaring only things they have control over.
Some NATO officials should stick to avoiding nuclear holocaust over some theoretical pissing contest.
This is so hilariously weak who did you think you would convince with this quote blatantly showing your title to be a lie. Lmao.
And let me just end by saying that this reflects the political reality that nations are sovereign.
I mean that’s just factually untrue. Every nations sovereignty is restricted by geopolitical realities. No nation can just do whatever they desire, including joining certain alliances. Mexico will not be joining BRICS for instance, because of the geopolitical situation. And that’s not even a military alliance, which NATO is! Europeans are not special, they have to play by the same rules as everybody else. To claim otherwise is to ignore the reality on the ground right now, both in Ukraine and globally.
Also none of this factors in that joining NATO, by definition, involves giving up some part of your nations sovereignty. NATO in reality acts as an extended arm of the US military and it’s industrial complex, and in joining, countries are subjected to this reality of Atlanticism.
Mexico will not join BRICs because they would then have to leave USMCA trade agreement. Cuba, your nearest neighbour, can do whatever it wants. The US does not get to dictate anymore by military might. They have done in the past. To do so today would bring other trade deals into conflict. The EU would be very against this. This does not mean the US cannot use its financial might, which it clearly does and often.
Also none of this factors in that joining NATO, by definition, involves giving up some part of your nations sovereignty. NATO in reality acts as an extended arm of the US military and it’s industrial complex, and in joining, countries are subjected to this reality of Atlanticism.
Simply not true. Being part of NATO is not an aggressive pact. It is only enacted if another member is attacked. One or more members being aggressive does not mean the rest have to follow. The US and the UK attacked Iran as individual nations. The US has the biggest say in NATO because they spend more than anyone else by quite some distance. Something that is changing because of the Russian attempts to annex Ukraine into its own borders.
Being part of NATO is not an aggressive pact. It is only enacted if another member is attacked.
Yugoslavia and Libya would probably beg to differ.
One or more members being aggressive does not mean the rest have to follow.
But they usually always do, because of the implication…
You are aware that the US and UK were not the only countries to deploy troops to Iraq (not Iran, as you mistakenly claim). There was a whole NATO training operation involving 13 NATO member states. 20 of the current 31 NATO members had some form of troop deployment in Iraq between 2003 and 2011.
Cuba, your nearest neighbour, can do whatever it wants. The US does not get to dictate anymore by military might. They have done in the past. To do so today would bring other trade deals into conflict. The EU would be very against this
I am not American, and it’s quite clear the US does use it’s military might when it needs to, to dictate the order of the world, and there is nothing that the EU can do about it. Precisely because their sovereignty is curtailed due to being US vassal states. Of which NATO membership is a key part. This includes actions against the EU. Unless you want to argue that the nordstream gas pipelines just spontaneously combusted.
The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
At least he had some good jokes to warm up the crowd!
I think I’ve told you before that I know it’s hard to allocate money for defence, because most politicians want to spend money on health, on education, on infrastructure instead of defence.
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Learn to read.
