Israel carried out its operation against Hezbollah on Tuesday by hiding explosive material within a new batch of Taiwanese-made pagers imported into Lebanon, according to American and other officials briefed on the operation.
The pagers, which Hezbollah had ordered from Gold Apollo in Taiwan, had been tampered with before they reached Lebanon, according to some of the officials. Most were the company’s AP924 model, though three other Gold Apollo models were also included in the shipment.
The explosive material, as little as one to two ounces, was implanted next to the battery in each pager, two of the officials said. A switch was also embedded that could be triggered remotely to detonate the explosives.
So…
They’re just casually admitting to another war crime?
Against someone I don’t even think they’re officially at war against?
Tell Israel:
Speaking to Israeli troops on Wednesday, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said, “We are at the start of a new phase in the war — it requires courage, determination and perseverance.” He made no mention of the exploding devices but praised the work of Israel’s army and security agencies, saying “the results are very impressive.”
I swear it’s got to be to drag the middle east into a massive war to maybe trigger some sort of clause that forces the US to go to war for Israel or end up with massive penalties. It’s the only thing that makes sense that isn’t just, “For the Evilulz”
And I swear to fuck if the US was actually stupid enough to enter a deal that forces them to go to war and send troops if the entire Middle East turns on Israel…
I mean, bibi seems to have the US by the short and curlies. I have no doubt that if things got spicy enough the US would gladly send boots on the ground to die for Israel’s actions. I could even imagine bibi saying “oh we’re so hurt, you guys do this, and we will stay back to defend our territory” while some poor schmuck from winsconsin gets exploded by an ied.
Not that Israel needs an excuse to commit a war crimes on any day that ends in Y, but I don’t believe this is a violation of the Geneva convention.
It was a mass targeted assassination campaign against an opposition military force structure. I’m not saying it’s not a crime, just that I don’t believe it’s a war crime.
But I’m open to the very real possibility that I am wrong about that. So if I am, can you point me to the article(s) it’s in violation of?
I genuinely would like to fill that gap in my knowledge, if it exists.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiscriminate_attack
Even if they could somehow prove every single person in possession of those pagers was a combatant, those people were just everywhere spread out in society.
Imagine sitting on a bus and the person next to you you’ve never seen before explodes, and you do too
Those are rooted in actions like bombardments of civilian areas e.g. Dresden, Gaza, etc.
Just because an action has collateral damage, does not make it indiscriminate.
Again, it’s not like Israel isn’t already committing war crimes every day, I’m just not clear if this is one of them.
For example, when the Ukrainian’s assassinated the propagandist in St Petersburg at the cafe, there was collateral damage. Still doesn’t make it a war crime.
I am not comparing the morality of Ukraine to israel, I’m just giving you relevant example from recent history
They’re just casually admitting to another war crime?"
From the article,
according to American and other officials briefed on the operation.
So in other words, they’re denying it officially. Just as they deny possessing nuclear arms.
Against someone I don’t even think they’re officially at war against?
Do they recognize Hezbollah as a country? Can’t officially be at war with someone you don’t recognize - those are just termed “police actions.” An oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.
I’m as critical of Israel as any reasonable person but that’s like the one thing they did recently that was actually a (at least somewhat) targeted attack against their enemies.
Calling that a war crime unnecessarily and dangerously dilutes the term. Leveling cities and starving the fleeing population is a war crime and a crime against humanity. Intentionally shooting civilians, children, aid workers, and journalists is a war crime. How about we focus on those, it’s not like there’s a shortage of israeli war crimes to report on.
EDIT: Apparently Lebanon reports 2800 injured and 12 dead from these attacks… How many fucking explosive pagers were involved? I doubt a significant percentage of those were Hezbollah, which would make that a war crime. The callous inefficiency of IDF operations will never cease to amaze me.
Why would you think only valid military targets were next to these?
Why are you still believing the IDFs first reports when the vast majority of the time they’re lying?
Why would you think only valid military targets were next to these?
That’s… not a war crime is. I don’t want to be the guy who justifies the death of civilians, because each one is a tragedy, but unfortunately in war there is such a thing as greater evils.
Why are you still believing the IDFs first reports when the vast majority of the time they’re lying?
Now that’s fair. And of course we can as well point out that their whole war is self-inflicted to start with so there’s not much legitimacy to any of their acts of war, even the less illegal ones.
State sponsored terrorism.
This makes more sense than them being able to remotely overload a battery to make it explode.
Overloaded Li-Ion batteries don’t reliably explode. I would have expected them to place the explosive inside an oversized battery pouch along with a heating element in series with the battery. A microcontroller on the board could go short-circuit upon receiving a certain message, making a large current flow through the heating element and triggering the explosive.
Yup, catch fire, definitely. But one exothermic reaction is not like another. :)
Yeah, that part really confused me, especially since I found it hard to believe that a battery that small could do any real damage. Maybe blow a hole in the guy’s leg, but that wouldn’t be enough to take out the guy.
You could tell Israel did it by the wanton disregard of civilian casualties and the lack of a global governmental backlash against the act.
What I’m surprised is that were able to get them to believe the propaganda that pagers would be a much more secure communication medium.
The articles keep repeating “Hezbollah”, but the target of the attack appears to have been the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon.
Much like the US bombing of an Iraqi airfield to kill the Iranian diplomatic delegation to Baghdad, this appears to be an entirely illegal and recklessly deployed assassination plot aimed at one guy. The thousands of injuries and the eight dead (at least two being children under the age of 11) are just collateral damage the IDF has once again blanket-tagged as “Evil Muslim Militants”.
That article doesn’t really indicate that one person was the target, nor does making 3000 pagers or whatever they were into bombs. I find it more likely that the Iranian delegation representative was just meeting with Hezbollah at the time or received one of their pagers to stay in communication. Nothing in the articles you link suggests this was done just to target them, just that they were affected.
They are anything but. Somebody with a laptop and a $20 USB SDR stick can see every piece of text flying though the air.
They might be in regards to emanation.
It’s funny how confident comments like these are without really thinking it though.
Go ahead, explain yourself then, since you seem to think I’m some sort of idiot. Because I have actually done this. And no vague psuedointellectual nonsense, technical details please. Frequencies, protocols, software, that sort of thing. Let’s hear your experience in the field.
How do we know these were actual terrorists and not just random people that bought a pager?
They’ve classified infants as Hamas terrorists before so I’m a bit skeptical.
The splodey ones all came from the same batches that were bought by Hezbolla-linked companies and distributed by them to hezbolla members. They didnt just ‘upgrade’ every pager made by gold apollo. Only batches destined for Hez.
Of course, theres undoubtedly a lot of people who ended up with one of the booby trapped batch, who are just regular doctors, nurses, workers, etc, and theres no certainty that the person who was issued the pager was holding it at the time. Could have been their kid, or wife, or whatever, so the attack was still not very discriminate.
Wasn’t the child killed by being near a pager? I don’t think it belonged to the child.
It’s worth noting that Hezbollah members aren’t just militant fighters. There are also social services and Parliamentary members
Hezbollah organizes and maintains an extensive social development program and runs hospitals, news services, educational facilities, and encouragement of Nikah mut’ah. One of its established institutions, Jihad Al Binna’s Reconstruction Campaign, is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon. Hezbollah controls the Martyr’s Institute (Al-Shahid Social Association)
Hezbollah holds 14 of the 128 seats in the Parliament of Lebanon and is a member of the Resistance and Development Bloc. According to Daniel L. Byman, it is “the most powerful single political movement in Lebanon.” Hezbollah, along with the Amal Movement, represents most of Lebanese Shi’a. Unlike Amal, Hezbollah has not disarmed. Hezbollah participates in the Parliament of Lebanon.
One can reasonably assume they studied the communications for a few weeks to figure out who’s who, and then sent the detonate code to a certain list of pager numbers.
