Cowpitalism. No? I tried
cf. Waiting for the Revolutionary Vanguard to usher in Utopia or for Jesus or the Mahdi to come back and establish the Millennium.
At least with liberalism, someone is milking the cows in the meantime.
Literally none of these are an implication of socialism.
Some of these, like taking away all food, are explicitly anti-socialist. Just because states that acted under the name of a socialist government did many of these things, that doesn’t mean that they have anything to do with socialism. That’s like acting as if the current Chinese government were actually socialist instead of being a capitalist oligarchy, or like the Soviet Union under Stalin was anything but a hyper-authoritarian quasi-fascist military regime.
Socialism is expressed in socialist policies in states in Europe too and while it certain somewhat increases the tax burden on society, it alleviates the grueling effects of wage slavery and lack of access to food, as well as in especially well developed cases, allowing for greater personal expression than can be true otherwise in capitalist settings.
Claiming that having to move only happens under authoritarian regimes, completely besides the point of whether or not that is relevant to socialism in general, is in complete disregard to the constant forces exhibited by uncontrolled capitalism, forcing people to move, eat whatever cheap crap they can get and, believe it or not, experiencing how loved ones and acquaintances disappear, not due to the government taking them, but due to the for-profit society grinding them down into addiction, depression and death.
Note that in no way I wish to support any military regime or other undemocratic government. But socialism is the policy of putting the government to work to support society, by having everyone partaking in society assist in supporting those that need it. What you listed is not representative of that ideal and only serves to show the degeneracy of the governments that did so in the name of socialism.
Come on, socialism is an economic system where society owns means of production. That’s what happened in USSR. The problem is, society cannot function without structure. There should be some representatives like secretaries. And those people have more power than others, even more, they can have near absolute power. And those people aren’t the best. As a result, bad people own all society, and there’s nothing to do with it. Under capitalism, if an employer is bad, workers can just quit and find another job. Under socialism, if the employer is bad, there is nothing to do because there is only one employer: the state. Capitalism is not bad, people who have lots of money are bad. But imagine exactly same people gain absolute power. That’s what was in the USSR. Greedy people, who wrote anonymous letters accusing others, benefited from it. They received confiscated flats and furniture. People of power lived better than others, they had better flats, better food, better goods. They were “elite”. All of them were actually higher class. And they stated they were caring for society. All their deeds were for good, they said.
I believe regulated capitalism and democracy are the best for imperfect humans. If people were ideal, any system would work flawlessly. But people are flawed, and any system giving absolute power leads to a state where bad people rule others.
What happened in the Soviet Union is more complex than that. I want to emphasize that I don’t support the majority of actions of the Soviet government and virtually none of the Stalin government in particular, but it is important to understand how society got where they were.
First and foremost, it is wrong to think that absolute power in a few people is absolutely necessary in this system to work. The reason that the Soviet Union fell into an authoritarian dictatorship is a result of their attempt at rectifying the old system. A strong believe specifically in Marxist-Leninism is that the only way society can move onto true and free socialism is if first, the bourgeoisie is completely and utterly removed from existence. They believe that if anyone still has a semblance of capital based superiority, that capitalism will always have a ground on which it will rise again, no matter how good their society might become. This lead to the believe that, “for now”, society needs to be led with an iron fist by idealists who know what’s good for it. This obviously fails once anyone with the will to abuse this system gets into a position of such power. There was no plan to get rid of them, no clear mechanism that would enforce their path towards the dissolution of this authoritarian state as was promised and finally no way out of it.
Socialism doesn’t need to mean that an authoritarian government owns everything forever. If that were the case, you’d effectively be no better than under capitalism, as all that has happened is that an elite above the worker class has taken control and the worker class is forced to accept it’s role in their plan. Even in the Soviet Union, one of the most famous planned economies in history, it was meant to be a temporary state just to set up a stable system and then transfer it into local worker ownership.
What has been shown to work well is at the very least the concept of a cooperative ownership where the workers own companies collectively and benefit from the profits together. While they aren’t incredibly widespread, they exist even in countries like the US. Most of them are found in the agricultural sector, but you even have examples of more widespread application of the concept in companies like Mondragon in the Basque region of Spain.
The specifics of where these should ultimately go would completely blow up this conversation and there are better people you can talk about it with than me (just don’t try it on hexbear), but the point, in short, is that no, Socialism doesn’t imply any of those points you mentioned, but yes, attempts and supposed attempts to instate it have ended in system supporting these things. That doesn’t mean that they are intrinsic to Socialism though. There are many factors that play into why it has historically failed and it serves to note that a major part that has made the development of a socialist society near-impossible, even in a good willed system, is the extreme pushback this has received from countries that were capitalist and where the elite was afraid of losing their advantage.
Socialism is expressed in socialist policies in states in Europe too and while it certain somewhat increases the tax burden on society, it alleviates the grueling effects of wage slavery and lack of access to food, as well as in especially well developed cases, allowing for greater personal expression than can be true otherwise in capitalist settings.
I never understood the beef people have with taxes. How can an uncertain individual money supply be better and less anxiety inducing that knowing that you give most of your earnings away but are guaranteed certain essential things for a good quality of life?
Except of course that the tax burden falls disproportionately on the working class still, but that’s another issue. In itself, taxes are amazing. Tax me hard big daddy.
I think the problem just comes from dissatisfaction with the government. If I lived in the US, I’d have my own gripes with paying taxes to be honest. Where I live I’m still not 100% satisfied with it, but not because I don’t want to pay them, but because I feel like they could be used better.
The difference to me being that I feel like it’s something that can be reasonably fixed here whereas people struggle with believing the same in the US. Then again, there’s people who don’t want to pay taxes even here, so I guess there’s just a general phenomenon going on.
Part of it seems to also just be a lack of social cohesion. People feel so incredibly negative to the thought of their money going to someone they don’t know personally because they don’t imagine them as people to be empathetic for. I’ve got the advantage, if you want to call it that, to have lived in poverty, to have had health emergencies and to have required government assistance to help me achieve my goals. I’ve seen first hand why these systems are critical. It makes it a lot easier to feel like these taxes are going somewhere good.
i too am a luddite
Feudalism
Year One
Your lord owns two hundred cows. You’re required to milk them sun-up to sun-down 2-3 days a week. The lord gets the milk. You’re not paid for your labour. You don’t own any land of your own, in fact, you don’t own anything. You’re allowed to live on your lord’s property, and not allowed to leave it. You’re considered to be “tied to the land”. On the days when you’re not required to milk the cows you’re allowed to work a small plot of land which you can use to feed yourself. Your lord gets a cut of anything you grow for yourself too. If your lord’s eldest daughter gets married, you’re required to pay your lord a customary fee. Since you don’t own anything, you’ll likely have to contribute some of your harvest which you were planning to use to feed yourself and your family. If your own daughter marries someone from outside the estate, you’re required to pay the lord a fine. If your lord chooses, you can be sold to another lord, and then you’ll move to their land and milk their cows instead.
Year Two
See Year One.
Year Two Hundred
See Year One.
If I call this socialism I’ll probably get yelled at by a nerd
Year 1:
A farmer owns two cows. You offer your services to milk them. You are now co-owners of cow-milkers incorporated. You each milk one cow. This gives you more than enough milk for yourself, and you sell the rest of the milk to pay for maintenance of the cow and are still left with a little cash left over to purchase what you want. Much of your left over cash goes to a community fund.
Year 2:
Your cow business is going well. You and the farmer agree that you could probably handle more cows. You opt to purchase a bull. This is a large purchase so you petition the community to allow you to dip into its funds and purchase a bull. You do so and soon you have five or six cows, still enough for you and the farmer to handle but honestly, it’s a pretty full day’s work. You employ a third person for the business. They become a co-owner and are afforded an equal share of the revenue. This share of profits is still larger for all three of you, you can even reduce the price of milk, in a similar manner the beer producers are reducing the price of their products because the community agrees for them to buy a bigger still and the vegetable sellers are reducing the price of their products because they were afforded larger fields. Now you’re selling stuff for cheaper but so is everyone else so it feels like you’ve got even more spending power to buy luxuries on top of the public good you support!
Year 3:
Here’s the kicker: you and the other two people think you can keep expanding. You dip into the communal fund to purchase new automatic cow milkers that were developed by the egghead academics that were funded by part of that community fund you keep contributing to. The same community fund that’s stopped you from being severely sick at multiple points in your life and has been used to provide housing for everyone in your village.
And suddenly.
You’re making more milk than you ever dreamed of! Sure you’ve got to clean the machines once a day, but you’re milking a hundred cows! And maybe you add, hell, five new people onto the company! That just gives you more free time, you can sell the milk for dirt cheap and still make more money than you ever were. Sure, you’ve got to divide the work up now. Shipping 100 cows worth of milk a day to the market ain’t easy but you’re going gangbusters.
Not to mention! The vegetable farmer and the beer producer automated their own stock, so they’re selling beer for carrots for milk for pennies on the dollar they cost last year, and they’re only getting richer! Those egghead’s keep inventing new gizmos and the world has its basic needs met while everyone is able to work less and less. Not only are the basics dirt cheap but the luxuries are too.
Do you not see how we are currently slipping towards feudalism? No one owns anything anymore, we pay half our money to land-lords, the rest to stay alive
