Edit
I kinda made this post out of spite for the fact the most previous post in this community, whose title I quoted/copied, was getting so many downvotes… At the time I posted this, the previous post had about a 30% downvote rate, and it really, really made me mad.
I am relieved tho to see people in the comments here who have real, actual empathy for their fellow humans. Thank you for contributing here.
It blows my mind how normalized it is to hate on those who are struggling. Especially in 20fucking23 when so many of us now are on the verge of it ourselves. Let’s be better, everyone - to everyone. I beg you.
Everyone is ok with homeless in tents till they set up shop in your street
If someone sets up a spot to sleep and keep their stuff close to your house, try talking to them like a person. I live in the City, so there are plenty of people I see all the time. Sometimes they ask for help, sometimes we just talk. I help when I can, but I also say no when I can’t. I stand outside and talk to some of the struggling people close to me for a while sometimes. They’re just people
The healthy homeless people struggling in my city get plenty of aid. The ones you find camping out are the ones who choose to be homeless, and the ones too mentally ill to seek help. But since we’ve become so sensitive, we just let them sleep outside instead of forcing them into programs. Until we accept that the mentally ill homeless who refuse aid need to be picked up and forced into it, things will never change.
I don’t mind the homeless through no fault of their own camping on my street. But I’ve seen plenty of drugged out mofos camping in front of or near my work I wouldn’t want anywhere near my house or those of my neighbors who have kids. I’m talking about the mofos who take apart cars and bikes and whatever else and then just leave everything when they move on. The mofos with piles of garbage that attract rats bigger than cats.
i doubt many people want to be addicts but they succumb to it all the same. regardless it doesnt excuse living like described above and i dont blame people for not wanting to be near described above.
See, this is part of the issue. Too many people recognize the problems, but as soon as any solutions to those problems inconvenience them, any empathy for those problems then goes right out the window…
I remember this guy in my city set up fake signs for the opening of a new homeless shelter in one of the wealthier and more liberal neighbourhoods in the city, where the “provide for the homeless!” Crowd tend to live.
The neighborhood was up in arms at the idea of the shelter getting set up in THEIR neighborhood. There’s a video about it around somewhere.
Speak for yourself. The owner class has long gaslighted everyone that greed and shit behavior is the default for humanity.
I’m not sure if I’m owner class since I live in a rented apartment but I dislike all the needles and feeling unsafe just going in and out of my apartment. Doubly so for my wife who gets harassed more than I do. So much so that she’s afraid to go anywhere.
It just sucks. Dunno if it counts as shit behaviour but I wish they wouldn’t camp there.
You know what’s worse than living near the homeless? Being homeless. You’re only a few paychecks away from homelessness yourself.
Maybe address that problem in a more direct way than letting tent cities be the solution? Here’s a crazy idea: actually provide housing. Treat mental illness and substance abuse. Provide training and job assistance. Create an actual social safety net.
I want both. I want to have housing-first approaches for the homeless, and I want homeless people to stop being harassed by police, government, and other people. If society has failed someone to the point of homelessness, they have a right to public spaces for survival.
A few paychecks?
Look at rockSlayer Moneybags over here
Jokes aside: I was homeless for 8 years, it really fucking sucked but I’d say that the worst part wasn’t trying to stay warm when it was below freezing or trying to stay dry in the rain, it was being treated as less than human simply because I was worse off than other people.
Even after I got a job and started building my life back up, when people realized that I was homeless they would immediately become either cold or hostile
It’s so fucked up how badly homeless people are treated in this country. I do what I can in my community, but it’s about time I find my local mutual aid group to be real help. Glad you managed to get back on your feet! If you don’t mind me asking, what was the situation and how did you build back?
i dont mind letting people use public areas as a place to stay for the night. but its not just a place to stay for them. its a place to do drugs, shit and piss all over the place, steal from and harrass and assault everyone around them, and let their trash pile up and attract pests. its a huge problem where i am and these people are fucking terrifying to be around. like, i dont want to be inhumane to anyone but where do we draw the line?
There does seem to be way fewer public toilets around these days. We closed them (or at least lock them overnight) because people were doing drugs and having sex in them.
So now they do those things outside, and I have to piss in the bushes when I’m out for a walk.
The trouble with the homeless is that they need to be around the normal people in order to survive and get money for food and drugs, but the normal people want them as far away as possible.
If we were rational about this, we’d set up communes where people would be fed, housed and clothed for free, given all the drugs they want, and help if they want to stop living like that. It would be way cheaper for society to deal with all in one place like that, drugs aren’t really expensive to make, and the rest of us can go to their town centre without a psychotic toothless crackhead screaming at them for money. But we’re not rational, and likely never will be. This isn’t Star Trek, and the idea of somebody else getting something for nothing seems to fill about half the population with a frothing rage.
, i dont want to be inhumane to anyone but where do we draw the line?
Imo we draw the line when someone who wants to be housed is threatened with being houseless and provide them with housing. Providing housing first is also the best way to deal with all the issues connected to being houseless like drug use, trauma from violence, mental health issues, etc
Imo the line has been crossed long ago and gets crossed every day and its important to keep in mind when trying to find solutions that are more like band aids on a broken system.
yeah im not advocating to kill them all or arrest them all or anything. i dont have the answers. but its pretty much weekly that someone at my job is assaulted or cars are broken into daily or a kid finds a dirty needle or so on. and most of these people seem like they dont want help. they really do revel in being awful it seems. they steal and harrass us gleefully without a look of remorse in their eyes so idk.
It’s always interesting to me how no one ever complains or overgeneralizes about people who are criminals, drug addicts, and/or severely mentally ill who live in houses. There are news stories daily about people losing their shit on airplanes. Every retail store and restaurant I’ve ever worked in had some kind of ongoing bathroom and/or dressing room issues where people can’t be bothered to utilize toilets or put their menstrual products or kids’ diapers in garbage cans. I’ve dated several people who were physically abusive to me and the people they dated before and after me. Yet, they are now parents with careers and, you guessed it, a mortgage or rent bill. I’ve also been around plenty of people who are either “functionally” mentally ill, meaning they are raging narcissists who don’t hesitate to harm others in any way possible as long as they get what they want, or who are just raging fucking assholes, like the twenty something year old girls at my college who are so invested in being at the top of their class and kissing the professors asses that they put effort into sabotaging other students and talking shit about everyone around them.
Bit I don’t hear anyone generalizing every single college student as being a self-obsessed sociopath just because there’s a subset of them that are bitches. I don’t hear anyone overgeneralizing every blue collar worker as being immature woman beaters with anger issues just because there’s a subset of them who are like that. And you get my point.
In addition, I think dealing with the presence of unhoused people and their camps is far less impactful for me at least. Ok, so downtown is dirty and dangerous. Wtf else is new? My college campus has had a problem recently with fake uber drivers picking up female students and assaulting them. Somehow, I don’t think any of the drivers were homeless. But I guess we should all stereotype uber drivers now as violent perverts, and outlaw all rideshare companies from the area. So it doesn’t really matter whether you’re downtown or near some camp or what have you. Crime is everywhere, and unhoused people are no different than the average population.
And what about car camping? I never hear anyone complaining about people who live in their cars being violent or dirty or crazy? If all unhoused people were all of those things, shouldn’t car campers be a huge problem? Especially when they’re not limited to doing all their crime in urban areas and can drive to wherever they want?
ive worked in retail for 10 years. this job is the first job ive had where there are drug addicted homeless people camped all around it. its different then your average karen or douchebag kyle. and yes ik that bathrooms are perpetually disgusting. but this is not like that. its a special kind of fucked up idk.
they are alive, so they need to shit and piss. they consume things, so they will create trash. if they are addicted to drugs, they need a place to do them. if we don’t provide for people public restrooms, public trash receptacles, and places to do drugs safely, they will do them in public where you can see them. nothing about any of these behaviors are unique to unhoused people, you just don’t see housed folks getting high and shitting in the street because they because have a far more comfortable, safe place to do their private business. you don’t see housed people’s trash because they have a bin to put it in that takes all the trash to the dump. how are they supposed to do anything different when they have nowhere else to go?
this whole antipathy towards people on the street makes me so fucking angry. they can’t go anywhere else. they have to keep all of their belongings out on the sidewalk, they have to shit on the fucking street, they have no other options but to live every moment of their lives in a public place, and we pass judgement on them when it doesn’t look pretty. these are human beings you’re talking about, not pests, not monsters, they’re people that you’re watching live in abject poverty, and all you can muster up is fear and disgust. its disgraceful.
im not sure youre catching on to the nuance of what im saying here. i am not unaware that i am one or two missed paychecks from being in the same position financially as them. im not saying their subhuman because of their hardships. but the reality of their addiction is that they care only about getting their next fix. to the point they will rob and assault any one they need to to get it. there is a certain point where my concern for mine and my family and my friends and my coworkers well being outweighs the pity i feel for these people. again im not advocating for killing or arresting them or anything inhumane like that, but something has to be done about it. no one whos lived around these camps for any amount of time thinks differently than i do about it.
the idea that unhoused people are usually addicted to drugs is a falsehood. the idea that these people are dangerous to the public as a self-evident fact is a falsehood. i do live around many camps. i walk by homeless encampments every single day. i don’t agree with you, and your biases are not some logical result of your proximity to them. i don’t think you can characterize unhoused people as dangerous or irrational categorically, i don’t think you can make assumptions about them being on drugs, and i don’t think that addicts are dangerous by virtue of their addiction. i don’t think the perception you have of these people in need is in any way a rational appraisal of them, and it plays into long held prejudices about impoverished people that cast them as less than rational, incapable of making good decisions, and addled by drug abuse, rather than what they are, people who have fallen into desperate circumstances and need help. attitudes like yours, that see them as threats to your community, rather than community members themselves, make it easier for systems of governance to further deprive them of resources. forcing them into camps, police raids that ruin their tents and dump the few belongings they have into landfills, building hostile architecture that makes the only places they can live unlivable, making laws that criminalize the only way they can survive. pitting your concern for your people against your “pity” for your unhoused neighbors is a false dichotomy.
You don’t want to be inhumane… but everything you just described previous to that is basically dehumanizing an entire segment of population…
I disagree… public space is our space. No one’s need is greater than anyone else’s. The homeless need help, the pubic space that we use to get to the store, play with our children, buff highway noise is not the place to get that. Now, I’m not saying financially penalizing or jailing them are the only alternatives but safe camping/RV spots with access to access social services, Wi-Fi, gather for ac/heater, etc seems like a better approach.
I’d rather we just give them housing and a support network to prevent homelessness in the first place. Until then, homeless people have a right to access third spaces for as long as they don’t have a living space.
Where I live housing is provided but some homeless people are so because they trash the apartments or they can’t or won’t respect very basic rules of not constantly causing a disturbance and the like. Addiction is big part of that. There’s lots of programs and services for that too but can’t really force people to use those services.
You can do a lot by offering help but some still refuse it. In that case I feel like it’s fair to make sure they’re not a disturbance to other people just wanting to go about their day.
Most people don’t choose to be homeless. If, and this is highly unlikely, homelessness in your area is due primarily to addiction, then the solution is not “usher them out of sight”. Supervised injection sites should be provided, so those people taking drugs can do so safely under medical supervision. If someone is homeless due to drugs, then they should also be able to live in third places without being harassed. The city becomes responsible for making sure that those homeless people can discard of their trash properly and have needle drops to make sure needles stay off the ground.
Make it happen then. All those things you’d like to see instead of the unhoused finding shelter are great. But the hypothetical “better” solution is meaningless until it’s implemented. Until then, decriminalize survival like the pic says.
Seattle is working through it’s shit albeit slowly and with many mistakes. Mental health funding was the ballot just recently, our homeless authority CEO was basically fired for incompetence, small homes and apartments available with more on the way, RV/camp sites are growing, anti-open use law is still in the works, camp removal is stalled due to too ambiguous definitions of “blocking”. I live and work in the city and I’ll be the first to vote on sensible laws and bonds. What I find no longer tolerable is bottomless unquestioned empathy.
Seattle is working through it’s shit albeit slowly and with many mistakes. Mental health funding was the ballot just recently, our homeless authority CEO was basically fired for incompetence, small homes and apartments available with more on the way, RV/camp sites are growing, anti-open use law is still in the works, camp removal is stalled due to too ambiguous definitions of “blocking”. I live and work in the city and I’ll be the first to vote on sensible laws and bonds. What I find no longer tolerable is bottomless unquestioned empathy.
If you agree with this, you’ve never seen public spaces taken over by homeless.
I agree. But by allowing them to be in public spaces we’re giving some squeak to an otherwise unnoticed wheel. Maybe then it actually gets the grease it needs.
Also… would you want to live in a tent in the park? Do you think they want that? Nobody wants to live their life that way. These are people without anywhere to go. Should they sleep in dumpsters just so we don’t have to look at them?
I’m all for helping but you can’t expect people to tolerate being threatened, feeling unsafe, people trashing or stealing others’ property, littering places with human feces and needles…
Nobody should have to tolerate that. Offer help yes but you can’t expect anyone to put up with that. Not the homeless or those with homes.
When those public spaces become shantytowns, crime rises in that area. So no- it’s not only about survival for the homeless. It’s not so cut-and-dry.
Those that live in those areas deserve to not be mugged. They deserve to feel safe in their homes.
Don’t act like it’s a right for people to become junkies that refuse help. Empathy is reserved for people who try and help themselves. Setting up a permanent encampments shows no intent to help one’s self.
A friend of mine once said “no one healthy wakes up one day and decides to try heroin, just for fun.”
That really stuck with me. There are many reasons why people use substances, and there are many reasons why people may refuse help. This doesn’t make them less than. You, as an outsider, have no knowledge or understanding of the circumstances that lead them to where they now are.
A 30+ year long friend of mine overdosed and died a few months ago. Don’t talk to me about what makes people become junkies. The fact is- ALL of them chose to remain so.
Being in perpetual debilitating pain from botched operations, wounds sustained during battle or plain accidents are not a choice. Neither is having any number of diseases that leaves you in said chronic pain.
The healthcare system is nothing but an administrative nightmare in many places, and it can be nigh impossible to get the help needed to recover to a functional life depending on where you live.
this is entirely valid. and our kids deserve to walk to school without getting stabbed by the needles all over the place.
I think a balance needs to be found and the unhoused communities need to police their own residents; Seattle has had success with this and the tiny housing communities it’s established - they give people an address to start seeking assistance for their issues, and don’t tolerate violence and dangerous behaviors like leaving needles everywhere.
I don’t understand the appeal of going onto the internet just to lie about a group of people who have done nothing to harm you.
I used to live in next to a homeless encampment. I used to walk by it every single day for 2 years. I have never ONCE seen a needle on the ground, day or night. You know what I did see a bunch of? People claiming that there were needles everywhere, without a single shred of evidence whatsoever.
The only way tent shelters will ever work without simply adding to the public health crisis, is to heavily legislate urban camping rules.
Make it legal to use an emergency outdoor shelter, provided it has a permit, to be renewed every week, confirms to size and placement regulations, is constructed from flame retardant materials, and (barring hazardous weather) that it’s taken down every day from sunrise to sunset.
We then attach to the free permitting process, an identification check, automatic enrollment in welfare services, career counseling, etc. and immediate access to mental health and substance abuse rehabilitation.
Care for those who obey the rules and scrape up those that don’t.
We can’t just let people rot indefinitely, huddling half naked under a leaky plastic tarp, searching for that last good vein, and call it compassion.
Oh look! Someone MAKING SENSE!
Everything below is anecdotal, take it how you want:
The major issue you’ll have with implementation of a program like this, is having the neo-liberal agenda calling it “homeless-tagging” . Which, in their eyes, equates to tagging a wild animal so it can be traced. You better believe the next high influence, Tiktok warrior would make a scathing I comment on it without research.
Like “Yeah, no shit, we tag animals to check on their well being and locations. All to necessitate the proper procedures for handling them when they need help or guidance. We tag ourselves when we get social security card or ID’s, or when we take a Goddamn selfie with location settings on. The only difference is that social media and the government is handling you.”
It’s getting out of hand here in Los Angeles. Venice was the worst. I DARE all the commenter’s in this thread that say ‘it’s not that bad’ to take a stroll underneath an overpass here in LA proper to ask if they need help. They don’t want it. Trust me. I’ve tried. Multiple times. I’ve almost got myself killed.
The suburb I live in is currently seeing a rise in homeless people just sleeping wherever they want sans tent. For example: Today I saw a dude sleeping right next to the driveway of a public plaza on the ground with a pookie in his hand. Half a block away.
There was also another dude just sleeping in our laundry room 3 weeks ago. Strung out. I asked him if he needed help and he told me to “fuck off”. So I called the cops, and said “hey this guy needs medical attention. I think he’s on drugs and in and out of consciousness”. You know what the cops/paramedic did? They came over, woke him up, told him to leave because this wasn’t his property. EMT asked him a few questions, checked him out and he was barely coherent enough to say, “I don’t want your help, go away”. He told the cops to fuck off as he was leaving. EMT’s followed him out and he left on a stretched after arguing with him for a few minutes. The cops said “he’s gone now, call us when he comes back”. Not “if” but “when”. Sure enough, dude was caught sleeping there again a week later by a neighbor. This time sober, but belligerent. “I’m just charging my fucking phone! Leave me alone!” was his excuse.
So the Manager called the cops again… Rinse… Repeat. Happened again with different person this week.
We tried the whole “Hey, come back during the day with the Manager’s permission” thing or "Hey you want some food, we have plenty. Sooner or later it was like that book “If you give a mouse a cookie”. They steal clothes from the laundry room and try to knock on people’s doors to get cigarettes. Not food. Fucking. Cigarettes.
On the flipside, a year ago we had a lady and her old, disabled dad just wandering the streets at 1 Am in front of our apartment. We asked them if they were OK and she had explained that her dad’s medical bills made them homeless, She explained that they were just trying to get through the night without being attacked by other homeless dude. So my neighbors rallied together and gave them about 2 weeks worth of food and supplies. We all paid for a hotel room for a week to help them get some relief. Her dad passed away a few weeks later, but she was grateful for it as he was suffering. We gave her some resources on how to get some help locally. Haven’t heard back from her after that… Hope she’s doing alright.
What a clusterfuck this whole thing is.
Most unhoused are mentally ill they are not junkies who do not want help.
