Competition is good! Unless it makes shareholders sad.
Slave labor is a system in which a person is bought sold and indentured to a master for a substantial duration, often life. Their labor is coerced as property of that master.
That is not how China produces cars. They use highly automated systems and paid workers like everywhere else. While Chinese workers are paid less due to the forces of unequal exchange (a system imposed by the US) and an export economy (a system usually imposed by the US but more of a 4D chess move by China to develop productive forces, with the US gladly taking the deal for exploitation), that is not really why the cars are so much cheaper. It is because China has highly concentrated industry and a much less financialized system.
Speaking about “fair” is amazing in this context. The US is simply trying to protect domestic monopsony industry and to damage Chinese industry. This is a jingoistic and corporate policy.
Chattel slavery is different than indentured servitude. There is no ownership of the indentured servant, but they are forced to work against their will. This is the slavery found in Xinjiang, as well as the US penal system.
what are you smoking https://www.reuters.com/world/china/how-unions-work-china-2021-09-02/
They can’t form new trade unions because everyone already has to join a registered trade union.
Yay, no punishment for the european brands. What they were doing, slept?
Germany is upset about this because they sell cars to China. This will probable create Chinese counter tariffs on European cars.
Germany oligarchs are imbiciles who cornrred German economy into being a Russian pappet…
When Merkel was advised about these risks by us and Poland, we were mocked within Germany is “old idiots”
Now these same elites are hoping Ukraine shot blows over so they can go back to sucking Putin’s dick for gas.
Germany was so unreliable that US had to blow that fucking pipeline to send a msg to the German nazi napo baby regime.
Can’t make this shit up… European geopolitics are still as clown as ever.
Dead Ukrainians is a small price to pay for cheap gas!
Russian gas was a cheap way for Germany to produce. The short term economic effects were more important to Merkels electability than any long term plans.
When it comes to gas, Russia never shut off the tap. Instead it was America who blew up the Nordstream energy supply to garner support for a wider war. But now China is producing on cheap Russian gas
At least Germany appears to heavily invest in green energy since Norstream blew up. Bless the sun for shining everywhere.
Once again ordinary people in the West are saved from affordable, low-pollution living, and Western companies are saved from having to compete.
That’s catchy, but not entirely true.
China heavily subsidizes EV manufacturers (and production in general), plus they have cheaper environmental and labour standards… it’s not like there’s a fair market EU companies can compete in without some sort of handicap.
PS: Yes, “western” countries have been playing along with China’s deliberate long term strategy with full awareness of where it would lead, but that’s another story that is both much older and has a much broader scope than the EV industry.
I feel like we would need to utterly destroy the working class to the point that cheap Chinese EVs would become expensive if we were to compete at the same level. I could be wrong, but how many of the chinese workers are driving brand new evs?
This is the market place, brah.
…
Free market capitalism
then talk about subsidies or non capitalist country controlling the currency, markets, VCs, etc.
What does that even mean?
they can subsidize EV manufacturing to the same degree
Meaning that we would either have to increase tax rates or borrow more money? Wow, what a great solution.
If the US or EU want to keep up, they can sunbsidize EV manufacturing to the same degree
You can’t allow dumping-inducing subsidies without also allowing defensive tariffs, otherwise the richer and more authoritarian countries, which have greater capacity for subsidies and greater ability to concentrate them in specific sectors, will easily kill foreign competition and establish monopolies.
The marketplace brah is a place where, without regulations that maintain a degree of fairness, the rich kills the poor, competition dies off, and consumers are drained to their last cent.
Just think of it: competition is when different actors fight it off and it ends the moment one of the contenders wins.
If you want the fight to go on forever, you don’t want an unregulated market.
Can you explain to us what the problem with China subsidizing EV manufacturers is exactly? That’s how China chooses to run their economy, and it’s entirely their business. The whole argument for capitalist markets is that they’re supposed to be more competitive last I checked. If that’s not the case then maybe the west should reexamine its assumptions about how an economy should be run.
@yogthos @gomp It’s the capitalist textbook example, to conquer a market by undercutting prices and to crush competition in that market that cannot compete - and to later increase prices when there is no more competition. You can see this all over the world, not only with China and EVs, but also for example with Uber and the taxi business or Europe with their food exports to poorer countries outside the EU.
They do this in an attempt to take over other markets.
If nothing else, they help get their brands into the world.
There’s loads of chinese EVs driving around where I live now, so based on anecdotal evidence, it’s working.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) (it’s not limited to EVs)
China heavily subsidizes EV manufacturers (and production in general)
And that’s a bad thing? Any sensible government is going to subsidise renewable energy and electric vehicles. It makes both economic and environmental sense. Anyone not doing this is an idiot and a climate terrorist.
Subsidizing sales of EVs (ie. I pay for my neighbor’s new EV because I want cleaner air) does make environmental sense.
Subsidizing production does not have the same positive environmental impact, mainly because factories in China pollute more than factories, say, in the EU (due to different environmental laws), but also because moving finished products from China to the “west” obviously pollutes more than moving just those components that would need to be sourced from China anyways (eg. batteries).
As for the “makes economic sense” part… IDK: I guess that mainly depend on your political stance.
Personally, I don’t like that both sales and production subsidies have the effect of moving money from the poor to the rich, but other people may focus on different effects (eg. more production = more jobs) and support subsides.
In case you wonder: my take is that, instead of incentivizing adoption and production of EVs, one should disincentivize internal combustion vehicles by adding taxes to them (which, in a sense, aren’t really taxes but just charging for the very real environmental costs society as a whole will have to pay for your shiny SUV).
Anyone not doing this is an idiot and a climate terrorist.
You should really think twice before spewing judgements… and also avoid misusing words like “terrorist” because, when misused this way, it only conveys that you don’t like someone, dulling your message instead of strengthening it.
You cherry picked his argument and left out the rest where he states China’s as cheaper standards of environmental “friendliness”
China heavily subsidizes EV manufacturers (and production in general), plus they have cheaper environmental and labour standards… it’s not like there’s a fair market EU companies can compete in without some sort of handicap.
Hah. Volkswagen is in trouble right now because they fucked up the transition to electric cars completly. What do you think will happen now? That’s right, we the (German) people will have to save them now, with our money. Basically the same shit as a subsidy, just later in the process. Kinda like what the Chinese do, just the really stupid way.
Oh, and of course, it will be everybody’s fault but their own.
Ofc. Electric cars are here to save the auto industry, not your health, safety, neighborhood, sustainability, kids, etc. #bancars
oh yeah, the land of “free market” …
PS: Stolen land
Has the EU “champoined” free markets? I assumed that was more of a US buxzword.