Seems News is just “US News”. I gave up all interest in US politics after the 2016 primaries. Good luck with fixing your shit. I’m out.
Of course it is. The US invented the internet. Everything defaults to the USA unless specified otherwise
Just to point out something the headline is missing:
I’m the united states 99% of abortions happen before the 21st week. For every state that has any sort of time limit on abortion, the absolute latest is the 25th week.
At some point, there needs to be a cut off. At some point we should all be able to agree that the baby is too far along to be aborted. This girl took a pill at the 28th week, which was far beyond when it was designed to be taken.
Now I don’t know if 28 weeks should be old enough for a criminal charge, but it’s definitely not as black and white as the headline makes it seem
Sure. I think that cutoff should be at birth. Because why should we have any baby born that will not be cared for?
so 20 minutes before the birth, you think it should be fine if the mother terminated the pregnancy?
That is an…odd take
Abortion is a termination of a pregnancy. 20 minutes before birth, the proper abortive procedure is a caeserean section. Regardless, no one should have the right to use someone’s body without their consent, which means there should be no term-based limits. If someone doesn’t want to give from their body to support another person, they should not be compelled (but are). Anyone agreeing to term-based limits has made a joke of their own position. It’s not murder if it’s before some arbitrary line you set, then it’s murder until the baby is born, then back to not being murder. You flip flop back and forth pretending you have justification and everything you’re doing is reasonable. There is no justification. If it’s murder than the whole thing should be banned, but it’s not murder, so the whole thing should be permissible. Compromising is playing into anti-choice’manipulative hands.
So in that case, if a baby is fully viable with confidence that it would live if born today, you still think they should be allowed to be aborted?
my opinion is that the cutoff is viability. until the fetus can survive on it’s own without significant intervention, it’s not a living person. if the baby can be delivered and survive/thrive with minimal intervention, you’re past the cutoff.
but, it’s worth noting that i am not someone who can carry/deliver, so grain of salt and all. and, additionally, this is a compromise mentality. i ultimately think that the issue of abortion should 100% be between a person and their doctor with zero influence or regulation by government agencies.
For the record, she was, probably, past that. My wife was born at 20 weeks, over three decades ago.
Yeah I feel like a lot of people will make a reactionary comment without reading the whole article. Obviously if the mothers life is at risk or the baby just isn’t viable then a late-term abortion is the right move, but 24 weeks is 7 months. Easy for us to say with no baby inside us I guess, but that’s (imo) very late for an ‘I don’t want a baby’ abortion.
There’s definitely a conversation to be had around whether this girl had suitable access to healthcare, to secure termination earlier. I guess only she and her mother know the answer to that. Women should have a right to choose if they’re going to have a baby, afaik from the article the cutoff was 20 weeks at the time of the offence, any women reading this… is it likely to be 17 in today’s world and not realise you’re pregnant for 7 months?
A huge number of people did not read the article.
“In May, Burgess pleaded guilty to a felony charge of removing or concealing human skeletal remains.”
If that is the case, people are a lot stranger then I thought. I thought not hiding and/or stealing human remains was something most people supported. Learned another new thing today
For those who did not read the article:
She was 28 weeks (6.5 months) pregnant. The survival rate for babies born at at 28 weeks is 80%. ( source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1117667/ ). This wasn’t a fetus, this was a fully formed baby.
I fully support right to choose, but this wasn’t abortion…it was murder followed by coverup. Everyone getting riled up over the social justice of this has plenty of things to be riled up over these days, but this isn’t one of those things.
Go look up “28-week baby” on google images and get back to me about your bullshit.
Revolting that this is now a “crime.”
“According to court documents, Celeste Burgess was in her third trimester of pregnancy when she consumed the abortion pills, making the procedure illegal as per Nebraska law.”
I think this would be illegal in almost every western country.
What would be revolting is if this wasn’t a crime. She then hid the “human remains.” I understand you’re probably pro-choice, but is this the hill you want to die on?
People like you just read the headline and reaction as if you know the whole story?
Abortion should be legal at any trimester, for any reason. No one has the right to use your body without your consent (unless Republicans succeed). Pretty sure that’s how it is in Canada.
Abortion should be legal at any trimester, for any reason.
I disagree, but once again, almost any western nation disagrees with you.
No one has the right to use your body without your consent
There’s a decent argument bringing a life into this world by choice is consent.
Pretty sure that’s how it is in Canada.
Canada is one of the very few nations to decriminalize abortions totally.
Some people do it even years after birth, so there are always someone pushing it.
Point is that “tour right To swing your fist ends just where my nose begins”
At some point those cells become person wether that is after three months, nine months or nine years is up to debate. I think medical professionals are best equipment to advice us.
I don’t believe you will find many doctors willing to do abortion in 7th month.
If
You gotta make a series of bold assumptions to believe her only option was to get an abortion pill at 28 weeks and hold onto the babies remains.
She had 20 weeks to get an abortion, which is more liberal than almost all progressive european countries.
Hard dissagree. It’s wrong in Nebraska, wrong in Germany, and wrong everywhere else where the standard is some date before birth.
That’s fine, but that still makes the comment I’m responding to absurd.
'revolting that this is now a ‘crime’ - it’s almost always been a crime in almost every civilized country for the last 200+ years.
It was always a crime to secretly force a stillbirth at 28 weeks and then bury the body without telling anyone. 28 weeks is almost 7 months (edit: math is hard). She had plenty of time to do it legally.
agree. fetuses can live outside the womb starting at ~24 weeks, whether you are pro life or pro choice i think (and hope) most of us can agree abortion at 28 weeks is very wrong. i dont understand how people can think otherwise. plus the article says nothing about the fetus posing any dangers to her health.
Absent more information, we cannot assert it was definitely wrong. You’ve intentionally framed this as “the article says nothing about the fetus posing any dangers to her health” which I have to assume is an intentional lie of omission. What the article actually says is nothing at all about the health of the fetus. It does not imply there was no danger to her health. It says nothing. Likely because it is an unknown.
What we do know about a 28-week abortion is that such an abortion was not part of a normal, healthy plan. Late-term abortions like this are almost certainly from someone intending to carry to term who has some kind of crisis. We do not know the nature of severity of the crisis.
In such a crisis generally, the community and the state should’ve been there to help them navigate it and reach an outcome that kept her as whole as possible while doing what is possible to keep the child alive. This was possibly a viable pregnancy. But I totally understand, especially to a teenager and in the current political environment of a place like Nebraska, being rightly too frightened to reach out for help.
To pretend that abortion after some arbitrary limit, should be illegal, is to make a mockery of pro-choice and bodily autonomy arguments. It even makes a mockery of pro-life. The whole thing is a complete joke. If you think abortion is murder, then agreeing to a term - based compromise is agreeing to let people murder children as long as they’re not too old. A compete mockery of pro-life. In reality, the arguments for bodily autonomy are so strong that everyone should have the right to abort at any term, because no one has the right to use someone else’s body without their consent (Republicans are changing this).
When you support these arbitrary term-based bannings, you’re giving in to the social manipulation of pro-lifers who have successfully manipulated you into a compromise that supports their position.
We can not agree on that because we have no fucking clue on the circumstances. It’s possible she learned of a medical complication for the fetus after 20 weeks. It is possible that it is really difficult to get an abortion in Nebraska and it took a couple months to be able to obtain the resources to do it.
We do not know because the information is not provided. It is possible that somehow after carrying a fetus for 28 weeks and likely knew for 22 of those weeks, she decided she no longer wanted it. We do not know but that seems unlikely to me.
There are quite a few medical complications that can be found after the 20 week ban. It is possible she did not discover it until after that. The article does not give information on the circumstances.
As for what she is being charged with, improper disposal of a body, that seems proper assuming there was some sort of biohazard issue.
wow, time sure is crazy, 28 weeks for 8 months, and then 24 weeks for the remaining 4
I wish people wouldn’t talk about pregnancy in terms of months.
40 weeks is at typical pregnancy. A nice, round, simple-to-remember number.
28 weeks is a pregnancy in the 6th month, just as a matter of fact. 28 weeks is also basically the earliest you would ever call someone in the third trimester and is the earliest a pregnancy is typically thought to have the possibility of viability.
Yep. Know why she did it? Desperation + living in a state that already made it hard to get abortions, but also doesn’t provide good prenatal care. Nebraska has one of the higher infant mortality rates in the country (though it still pales in comparison to Mississippi).
You don’t know the circumstances because the article does not give them. Don’t be a fuck head. It is quite possible that there were medical complications that were discovered past 20 weeks.
Then the doctors would have advised her on what to do. I doubt “take black market pills to force a stillbirth and then hide the body” were the doctors orders.
It should not be a crime. The trimester is irrelevant. If the child had been born, it would have no right to anyone’s body. In the womb, it should have no right to someone’s body either. Pro-lifers have tricked you into arguing for unethical trimester-based bans. If it’s wrong to kill that baby after a certain number of weeks, it’s wrong to kill it before then too. To compromise, to allow abortion before a certain trimester but not after, is to make a mockery of the pro-life position, which says abortion is murder (but if you do it early you get a pass). There is nothing wrong with a late-term abortion compared to an early abortion. The child does not have a right to use someone without their consent.
She wasn’t charged for the abortion, she was charged for hiding the remains. Did anyone read the article here?
Yep they’re trying(and succeeding at in some states) to frame women as cattle. Where the fetus no matter what the viability is, or the danger to the women’s health, and her socioeconomic status in regards to being able to raise a kid(with little to no help from the state that made her carry the fetus to term without any social safety net and if their is one it’s completely underfunded and has lack of easy access. Wtf is going on in peoples minds that think this is alright? I swear the alt right and republicans just give lip service “ small government” while they laugh all the way to the bank and damn well make sure that their daughters,wife’s, mistresses have access to those health services that is “plebs” are not privy too. /end rant
In Nebraska, The 12-week ban includes exceptions for rape, incest and to save the life of the mother. This might indicate it was more of a socio-economic / psychological reason, which are not sufficient grounds under the law to terminate the offspring after that point.
It doesn’t matter when the effect prevents basically everyone from getting an abortion.
Jailing women. Jailing gay people. Killing Trans people. Banning books. Get ready the GOP/Nazi party is spreading their wings.
regardless, it’s the law. if you want it changed, move to Nebraska, get residency, start a grassroots campaign, get elected to State government, and draft a bill into law.
you’re free to do that, after all - self government is one of our many freedoms. many other countries don’t allow people to do anything about how the government works.
