(I have amended the title of this post based on feedback and critique, to more acutely reflect the target of my grievance)

This could be a bad take, but, hear me out.

I was once a subscriber to r/atheism a long time ago. I was absolutely a smug ass fucking atheist. I’m not sure what it was that caused this world view I held to change, but as time marched on I’ve grown incredibly suspect of anyone who willingly identifies themselves as an “atheist”.

I grew up going to church every week. That slowed as I got older. I remember my grandmother telling me I needed to cut my hair at church, and telling her “I have hair like Jesus, you think Jesus should cut his hair?” I learned later we stopped going to church because they started preaching about antiabortion and my mother wanted nothing to do with that.

So I was at least fairly indifferent about religion by the time I was in highschool. I remember Atheism giving me a sense of superiority that was deeply rooted in “facts and logic” despite being a severely under read dipshit in highschool. I’m sure I spent countless amounts of time debating people in comments, being a general idiot on the internet. Probably passively consumed a bunch of Hitchens work/ideas without having read any of his books.

At some point I stopped putting a lot of thought into it, and this smug sensibility was pushed into the back of my brain. Then in 2020, like a lot of people, I was swept up in this rise in socialist thinking, leading me to change my entire perspective on the world.

I think it wasn’t until recently, when I was having a conversation with someone I knew and the topic of Islam came up that I realized how much I had distances myself from this smug atheist perspective. They said something about Islam being an “inherently violent religion”, and my gut, instinctual reaction was to blurt out “What? What makes you think that’s true?” They responded with something being in the Quran, and again, like water from a faucet the words “Listen, maybe that’s true, maybe its not, but Islamic people are not a monolith.” poured out of me and the conversation kind of died on the vine.

The reason I’m even thinking about this today is because, of all things, I watched the Asmongold “apology” video he published today. He attributes his shit ass takes about Palestinians being an inferior culture and thus worthy of genocide to his “hatred for religious extremism of all kinds”. He goes on to say that he was or is a “r/atheist enjoyer” and a self professed “atheist”. It really confirmed a lot of assumptions I have about atheism that I guess have been lingering in my skull.

Those assumptions being that Atheism is, on it’s face, a religion in and of itself. It’s belief is in that of non-belief. It has missionaries like most other religious belief systems, seeking to secularize communities and cultures. It believes it is the one true religion and that all other religions are false religions with false gods. It demonizes all other practitioners of these false religions indiscriminately, believing that they are either upholding their wicked systems of oppression, or are directly complicit in them. Countless books have been written about the its theology and the logic of its faith. It is a fully fledged faith, in that you have to believe in this non-belief, on faith that you will be proven correct when you die.

Not only all this but its clear to me now that Atheism is the western liberal religious belief system. Its fully compatible with western chauvinism, as it demonizes the wests enemies on the grounds of their systems of belief, which are regularly the reason for the wests interventions. Western wars are “secular” wars and as such they are atheist colonial projects as well. The idea that modernizing a backwards 3rd world country would bring about liberal democracy and with it liberal values. Atheism is liberal values.

Now this isn’t to say that religious violence doesn’t exist or that religious extremism is also a fable, but instead that Atheism and its ideas are a form of religious persecution, it breeds the same phobic believes that other religions develop about the ones they are attempting to conquer. The Atheist believes that through the abolition of religion, via changing hearts and minds, a entire form of violence will be removed as well. It completely denies the material realities and conditions that cause religious extremism to begin with. Because of this, it doesn’t recognize that to achieve a secular world, it will only be done so through violence.

Somehow the atheist believes that religion and culture are all somehow disconnected and isolated phenomenon. That somehow you can remove religion from the equation without damaging or altering culture. That some how this secularization will happen quietly and without conflict.

When I’m asked if I’m religious I say no. if asked if I’m an atheist, I say no. The only thing I would identify as in this context is as a materialist. It matters not to me what lays beyond the vale of life, but what does matter to me is what is happening here and now. Pain and suffering exists here in this conscious reality. Happiness can be achieved here in this conscious reality. That happiness can include religious and spiritual belief.

I have no conclusions here. This is just the ramblings of an old wizard. If I’m off base here please tell me. Interested in your perspectives as always comrades.

4 points

You basically just told my life story. I was one of those capital ‘A’ Atheists, made it part of my identity, for lack of an ideology. I was an obnoxious little shit. I read Dawkins and Hitchens. Religion was my enemy. Then I went to Japan, and visited Shinto and Buddhist shrines and temples, studied Islamic history and architecture in college. I learned to see great beauty in these cultures and religions, that religion wasn’t inherently evil. When I found communism, I understood what my true enemy was. I still lack any faith in a god or follow any specific religion, but I do not like the atheist label any more. While I wouldn’t call myself a Buddhist, I have found great passion in learning about it and incorporating aspects of it into my life. As the situation in Palestine has progressed, I have found myself having a lot of respect for Islam as I have been exposed to and learning about the resistance. On the day Lebanon was invaded, I found myself listening to a prayer that someone posted in the news thread, it brought me great comfort, and moved me to tears. I don’t think I’m an atheist any longer, or rather feel completely alienated by that new-atheist community. It’s frustrating, my new-atheist family member who was instrumental in forming my early beliefs, who taught me to “question everything” has stuck with it all these years, and has become quite reactionary and complains about woke and cheers on US imperialsm.

I would burn my Dawkins and Hitchens if I didn’t think burning books was a crime. I keep them, they were an important part of my past, they started me questioning our society and beliefs, but they will gather dust. Those 2 creeps sicken me now, and I don’t know how I ever swallowed so much of their crap for so long.

permalink
report
reply
18 points

As an atheist, I’d change the title of the post to “there’s a type of atheist that disgusts me”. I think religious beliefs are an expression of material conditions and the political culture, so those are what I focus on. And the material conditions and political culture breed all kinds of strange nonreligious belief systems that people should be more skeptical of. But I genuinely do not care what people believe as long as they do not use it to justify hating marginalized people, especially if they find meaning or peace in it. I don’t think people find meaning or peace in QAnon, but I know Christians who are genuinely very good people and do not want them to stop believing if it makes them happy.

permalink
report
reply
22 points

Not that I’m trying to criticize this post or endorse an /r/atheism worldview, but I have to say that this site is in an ironic position as a bunch of avowed leftists, with a ton of us being some flavor of ML, and being against atheism. Marxism is traditionally atheist, ML states have often been officially atheist, because religion is opposed to a materialist worldview.

It’s always seemed to me that a lot of the the new/reddit atheist types were people who grew up in right wing Evangelical households and environment and broke out of it. They have a very understandable and correct hatred for that shit, but too many of them never really broke out of the pattern of thought they were taught. They kept the dogmatic, black-and-white worldview complete with smug superiority, just with a new dogma. Anecdotally I would sometimes argue with them against Jesus Mythicism and it was like banging my head against a wall. (Like, motherfucker I don’t believe in the miracles or god shit either, but every piece of historical evidence points to there having been a dude who led a minor religious movement in Judea and got crucified by the authorities. Why is that so hard to admit? No one is asking you to believe anything else!)

But even so, I’m still pretty much an atheist even if I share your distaste for that word and the people who usually self-apply it, because what the hell else am I supposed to be? What, you want me to be Christian? I’m not doing that shit.

permalink
report
reply

Yeah the more comments I read the more I understand my specific grievance. Specifically the brand of Atheism pushed by the likes of Hitchens and Dawkins, and others, sometimes called New-Atheism.

I’ve amended my title to reflect this realization.

Naturally in not advocating against being an atheist, but specifically this western chauvinistic brand of atheist. It’s ironic that Hitchens called himself a Marxist.

permalink
report
parent
reply
16 points

At the end of the day all modern atheists who are not socialist are theists as much as any creationist or dominionist

Capitalism is their religion and they worship it with a ferocity indistinguishable from any Spanish inquisitor

They worship a machine god that actually is real, which in a terrifying sense makes them more dangerous than all the religionists who came before them

permalink
report
reply
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
reply

Thanks comrade ❤️

permalink
report
parent
reply

chat

!chat@hexbear.net

Create post

Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.

As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.

Thank you and happy chatting!

Community stats

  • 1.6K

    Monthly active users

  • 1.8K

    Posts

  • 23K

    Comments