Non vegan here. 🤔
Soooooo honey is not extracted directly from the bees, so that would be an argument to declare honey vegan.
On the other hand, even with modern beekeeping tech and modular hives, one could argue the act of taking honey to be a serious intrusion on the bees’ life, so that could be an argument that honey is not vegan.
One could argue where the line lies with eusocial organisms. Do you consider the individual bees or do you consider the whole hive? Whole hive? Honey may not be vegan. Individual insects? Honey could be vegan.
It really depends on your standards. One vegan friend of mine does drink mead (honey wine, for the uninformed) for instance.
Well since we’re constantly digesting our own dead microfauna, I’d say that it’s literally impossible to be fully vegan, so they might as well stop trying and spare us their obnoxious bullshit.
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”
~ The Vegan Society, 1944
It’s not natural period
The three N’s of Justification:
Eating meat is natural, necessary and normal. Check this video on carnism.
To each their own
Vegan Bullshit Bingo #6:
Food is everbody’s personal choice
How can something that others literally gave their lives for be a personal choice? Food nowadays is globally produced and distributed and affects - like most of our decisions - many more parties and beings, such as animals and our entire ecosystem. Your taste in music is a personal choice. The freedom to choose what we consume though, should not limit the freedom and well-being of others. Be it through animal exploitation, destruction of ecosystems, inhumane working conditions in the animal industry, zoonoses and pandemics, multidrug resistant pathogens, waste of resources and further consequences, that lead others to suffer.
but I can’t stand the vegans that try to put others down for eating meat
Vegan Bullshit Bingo #52:
Vegans think they are better than everyone
While it feels good to know that you have questioned traditions and made your own informed decisions in line with values that reject violence rather than promote it, you should not get on a high horse, because almost all vegans were once not vegan and everyone can take this step. However, completely refusing to address the issue is a difficult stance to take.
By the way: Just because a vegan once told you an uncomfortable truth, they were not being mean to you. And even if you didn’t like a vegan once, that doesn’t question the whole point of veganism or justify continuing to exploit animals.
Nature is kill or be killed and has been since the dawn of time. Everything eats everything else.
Vegan Bullshit Bingo #1:
Lions eat meat too
Yes, animals kill in the wild - to survive. We humans are, as opposed to predators, omnivores. We know how to grow crops, vegetables, etc. and cultivate fields. We have a choice, a conscience and have ethics.
Are you identifying with the intelligence and life situation of that of a lion? Do you also commonly ask yourself “What would a lion do in my place right now”? Are lions that kill newborns of other lions, for example, really good role models?
Being “natural” is not an indicator of “good” or “bad”.
Cyanide is natural. Eyeglasses are unnatural.
Maybe pick better metrics for society.
Any that’s the hypocrisy of Vegans. Milk and honey are the only two animal-based food sources that don’t involve the killing of animals. And in the case of most cow breeds, milking is actually needed as they have been bred to produce far more milk than their calves drink. And with careful management of the hive, you can harvest a lot of honey from a mature hive without negatively affecting the hive itself - it just delays/defers new queen production and swarming, which is desirable anyhow - no beekeeper who has hives primarily for crop pollination wants to have hives swarming each and every year.
Vegans are more “consent” than focusing on the consumption.
Vegetarians eat honey and drink milk. Vegans don’t as they don’t feel that animals can consent to the actions being taken place on their body. It’s basically a form of “Can this animal agree to what is taking place?” question. If they can’t even answer a yes or no, then it’s a form of abuse.
Like how we consider that animals can’t consent to sexual acts. It’s wrong because we exert a force to them that they can’t even disagree with. Bestiality is obviously wrong, and I don’t think you’d find a lot of people who would disagree except those who perform it. But it’s weird that we view the killing and eating of them as normalized.
And I am saying this as someone who consumes meat. I fully acknowledge I am complicit, I just don’t defend my actions.
You are free to have this opinion but how does it make vegans hypocrites? Everything you said is incompatible with veganism simple because you are commdifying other creatures.
You did a great job trying to make it sound like humans make their lives better by enslaving them though.
Cool, I don’t consider that causing harm. It is interesting though. I guess I could be moved to the side of it causes less* than zero harm to the plant, but I still don’t give moral consideration to plants in either case.
Edit: meant more than*
Milk and Honey involve absolutely killing animals. For milk the “excess” bulls are being killed. Not to mention the rape to get the cows pregnant for them to produce milk. Maybe we shouldnt breed animals that suffer at all. The bee hives get sugary water instead of their honey, this weakens the hive since its obvisiously unhealthy for the bees. Also the honey bees suppress other natural bees, that are neccessary for many plants since the honey bee doesnt pollinate every plant.
Maybe we should just let the animals alone. We dont need them for food.
Eggs? Even if you count “fertilized” as being an animal, the vast majority of eggs aren’t fertilized.
fungi?
