I am not a teen.
If it does not serve a purpose for the plot, then it’s not needed. Simple as that.
As I said here:
Why does it have to further the plot?! Why does sex/nudity have to justify itself when tons of movies have gratuitous action scenes and violence that add nothing to the plot? 90% of John Wick is gratuitous violence that added nothing to the story (but I still love it). Our culture celebrates violence and we’ll watch people get tortured to death without batting an eye - but if some tits show up on screen then suddenly everyone becomes a critic analyzing whether the story REALLY needed it or not.
It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.
Sex is too important to be left to porn.
The point of John Wick is the gratuitous violence. The plot of John Wick is in service to delivering gratuitous violence. The name for a movie whose plot is in service to delivering gratuitous sex is “pornography.” Tasteful, artistic nudity is one thing. Even sex, in service to the plot or purpose of the movie, is another thing. But sex just to sell the movie or check a box is not a thing: we’re now talking smut. Cheap, common, vulgar smut.
“Everyone is ugly and everyone is fucking” is just real life. If you want “Everyone is beautiful and everyone is fucking,” good news- that’s called porn already, and there’s so much of it. I like smut, and porn. Which is why I can recognize softcore in movies when I see it. Stop me if you’ve heard this one before, but if I wanted to watch porn I’d go home and masturbate.
I congratulate you on your personal sexual liberation. Please keep your jollies to yourself- in private- while we pitiful repressed twilight zone voyeurs awkwardly exclude sex from our public lives.
I’m not saying I want movies that have as much sex as John Wick has violence - obviously that would just be porn. My point is: why does sex have this obligation to move the plot forward when we give a pass to other gratuitous scenes (action, drama, violence, etc)?
If you want “Everyone is beautiful and everyone is fucking,” good news- that’s called porn already, and there’s so much of it.
The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals the problem. Seems like many young people today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying “we have war documentaries so we don’t need war movies.” They are completely different things!!
while we pitiful repressed twilight zone voyeurs awkwardly exclude sex from our public lives.
Who said it has to be part of your “public life”? I’m not saying we should all want to watch Wild Things with our parents, but not every movie needs to be a ‘family movie’ that you’d want to watch in polite company. Some movies are best watched with rowdy friends or an intimate partner - and I’m sad that those types of movies have been in decline. The younger generations seem far more prudish than I ever expected.
Its very simple. Sex is boring to look at. Even porn. Whats the longest you watched a porn movie? 5 minutes? 15? Let’s top it off at 30 minutes. Just to be safe.
Violence is not boring. Stuff like John Wick grabs you by the ass and puts you on a roller coaster.
Want proof? Look at gaming. How big are the dating sims? Now compare that with call of duty/etc.
So, me? Yeah, stop with the xxl steamy sex scenes in movies. Very rarely do they add anything more then an interlude. A time to get coffee. To look at your notifications. At best.
To be clear: I love sex. My sex.
Exactly this. A lot of media is atrocious about shoehorning in things even if they are jarring and dont make sense. Token characters (race, sexuality), token ideologies (veganism, feminism, religion, etc), stereotypes, you name it.
Edit: and famous celebrities for no apparent reason. Surprise! Your favorite character from the book this movie is based on is now played by Dwayne “The Eock” Johnson.
Yeah because everyone in media needs to be straight, white, and Christian. 🙄
Representation matters.
Sure, but I get what they mean. Sometimes you have a minority character that doesn’t very much seem to interact with the plot, nor has many discernable personality trait beyond being part of a minority.
Representation matters, but it should be done in a way that makes the characters actual people, not just a tick in a checkbox.
They’re saying that characters irrelevant to the plot having diverse roles feels forced. Wouldn’t you agree diverse roles should be in meaningful roles like leads?
People downvoting as a reactionary for making them feel bad, but I agree.
Having a stereotype as a character for the sake of “representation” is not representing anything good and is not doing justice to anyone who would be more than a single note character.
I’m tired of bad writing and gimmicks to get people to have a reaction to an otherwise bad story, but that doesn’t mean I want movies with none of the topics in it, I just want it to mean something when it’s there.
Exactly.
(Natural/Organic storytelling) The Boys: Maeve, Kimiko, and Starlight, beating the shit out of Stormfront
Vs
(Forced/jarring) That scene in Avengers Endgame, where every female character from across a massive battlefield appeared next to each other. As opposed to the scene in Infinity War with Proxima Midnight which felt fairly natural.
Actual no holds barred sex of every sort you wish to see, as often as you wish to see it, a click away on the interwebz, the titillation found by past generations in R rated movies and late night Television, no longer computes, and is wholly unnecessary
As I said here:
The fact that you only equate sex/nudity to porn reveals a problem. People today can’t associate sex/nudity on a screen as art, or even just fun, anymore - because in their minds sex/nudity is inextricably tied to porn. The reality is sex/nudity can be fun, dramatic, scary, or funny depending on the context. It can have a place in many kinds of stories, and comparing it to porn is like saying “we have war documentaries so we don’t need war movies.” They are completely different things!!
It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art.
Sex is too important to be left to porn.
Writing a story and having to make my characters not want to have sex because of the existence of an unrelated industry outside the context of their universe.
Striking out any gambling references in my stories because of the rise of online gambling.
Then I realize I’ve stupidly written scenes where my characters eat, having forgotten like a stupid hack how many restaurants there are in the real world.
Dude, there’s a difference between romance and full-on extended sex scenes. Fade to black and get on with the plot.
The sex scenes that most mainstream dramas have traditionally had are brief and not explicit.
Do you characters take big stinky poops? Because that’s a real thing too. Do they pop pimples on their body or on their partners? The list goes on. There’s an audience for everything, but it’s pretty obvious sex isn’t as much of a driver for movies anymore.
Sex is an important part of one’s life, bowel movements aren’t. (Hopefully)
I’m not a teen (far from it), but I’m with the kids on this one. The vast majority of sex scenes in movies are awful. They’re awkward and totally unrealistic. It completely takes you out of the movie. Most sex scenes are not engrossing or engaging, they don’t immerse you in the story, they push you out of it.
Most every sex scene feels like it was made by someone who’s never had sex. Every angle is the right angle, every thrust is ecstasy, it’s nonsense. It’s like someone who thinks the covers of romance novels are depictions of real life.
There are a lot of intimate moments that can be portrayed convincingly enough on film, but sex is rarely one of them. And it’s just not necessary. Let the audience infer, let us use our imaginations.
I have a friend who’s dated a bit but has never really had a boyfriend. I think she gives up too soon because she expects a Hallmark movie where everything’s perfect and every kiss is magical.
I don’t know if that’s necessarily a bad thing, I kind of wish my standards had been higher when I was younger. I dated a lot of people longer than I should have, thinking that that was as good as it got. The fact that she is going on dates is a good thing- it means she’s at least getting an idea of how she fits with different types of people and she’s socially active.
Obviously she might overdo it, but as long as she’s content alone as well, she’s not really hurting herself. I guess it’s a function of how regretful a person she is and her age.
There’s a really good BBC miniseries about Oppenheimer made back in the 80s with Sam Waterston in the lead role.
On the one hand, it doesn’t have mind-blowing special effects.
On the other hand, there’s no sex scenes in a show about the scientist who helped make the atom bomb because why would watch a TV show about him and hope to see him fucking?
I wouldn’t even want sex scenes in a Feynman movie and he was fucking every woman who was willing. It’s just not a necessary thing to tell his story. You can show he was a horndog and not show him fucking.
Anyway, here’s the miniseries.
I agree, every sex scene looks like something that is not how people have sex. Except for the guy in office space https://youtu.be/JNVqMgCAHmk. That sex was real.
And no one is laughing or having a good time. It’s always some serious ass business.
I’m sorry, but this take feels out of touch. Every shot in a movie is at the right angle. Of course they’re unrealistic. Movies are unrealistic. Sure, some try to take a more gritty, grounded approach but in general art is trying to capture the highest and lowest points of life. Obviously it’s going to be unrealistic.
Fair enough, but when you’re trying to recreate something as intimate and vulnerable as sex, it just stands out more. Of course when I’m watching a movie I consciously know that what I’m seeing on the screen isn’t real, but when it’s done right I’m so immersed that that part of my brain turns off and I’m able to get completely lost in the story or spectacle. But more often than not, when there’s a sex scene I get completely taken out of it and instead of seeing characters having sex, I see actors engaged in an awkward simulation.
It’s just boring, and defeats the purpose of good story telling IMO. It’s either uninteresting showing very little, or it’s like porn, and when I watch a movie, I’m generally not in the mood for porn.
If they had great sex, it may not mean the same to everybody. But if you show them at a later point, like breakfast or something, and they are glowing and smiling bigly to each other, we all know what happened, and how it went.
As I said here:
By that logic you could make arguments against a lot of different genres and classic story elements. I don’t like the argument that because media these days sucks at doing something they should avoid it altogether. I think they should just do better. Movies in the past proved it can be done.
It’s disturbing to me that we’re culturally encouraged to find fun in violence but sex needs to be cordoned off to a containment genre and excised from mainstream art. I’m not saying it needs to be in every movie - but its been obvious for a while they’re going out of their way to avoid it, even in places where it would make sense or be fun. I want art to stop awkwardly excluding a major part of life. I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.
Sex is too important to be left to porn.
I want out of this “Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny” Twilight Zone multiverse that all our modern movies seem to take place in.
I’m not saying no character should ever be allowed to be horny, or sexual in any way. My point isn’t that we should pretend that human sexuality doesn’t exist, I just don’t think it’s always necessary to see it simulated (usually poorly) on screen.
One point to disagree on: less teens than ever are having sex, and with no actual experience, their imaginations are based on porn. No wonder they’re terrified of it, if their first impression is what comes up when you Google “boy girl have sex”.
Too many parents are not open with their kids about sex. I made sure my daughter understood that there’s nothing shameful about watching porn or masturbating, but she should not expect actual sex to be like what she sees in porn and she will enjoy it a lot more if she won’t have those sort of expectations.
It’s not enough to just tell kids where babies come from. You need to tell them all sorts of things that they really need to know about sex because otherwise they’ll learn bullshit from the internet and other kids. Tell them about the things I mentioned and also about things like contraception and consent and even about kinks and why you shouldn’t feel shame or be worried if your kink involves consent all around.
It’s the stupid toxic “romance” that I want rid of. It gets so boring and tedious to watch. If it’s important to the story, then fine. But otherwise can we just normalize friendship between opposite gendered people without the need for bad relationship drama, jealousy, and normalizing the idea that when someone says no, they’re actually just “playing hard to get”.
can we just normalize friendship between opposite gendered people
Great idea. I would love a prominent TV show to have main characters of the opposite sex that are good friends and a romance is never shoehorned into it at any point.
Warehouse 13 got sooooo close.
Stargate SG1 did it as well or evem better than WH13 in my opinion. Sure Jack and Sam have some sort of romance but Teal’C, Sam, and Daniel are great friends. Atlantis did it even better with Ronon and Teyla.
Yeah, but not all the characters on any show were hooking up with each other outside of soap opera stuff. There was still an idea that two of them will end up falling in love. Why does that need to be part of the show at all? Let them all have partners outside of work.
I’ve had that show recommended to me before and I keep avoiding it because the subject matter doesn’t interest me, but I keep being told to watch it despite that, so it is on my long list.
Sherlock sorta did it. I don’t think those two ever got together?
Edit: I did very much mean Elementary
Watching softcore porn with your friends and family is kind of undesirable.
