When given a choice between a millitary industrial neoliberal with a rainbow voting base and a fascist who is one elon musk golf session away from banning HRT, the best option is certainly not to refuse to play out of protest
The best way I’ve seen anyone put it is that by the time the election arrives, you are exclusively in damage control mode. If you want actual change, you have to have it done by getting your personal choice voted in during the primaries.
Yes. And Biden was chosen, which includes Harris being next up if Biden couldn’t perform the duties of president for any reason. If Democrats didn’t want the status quo, they should have chosen someone other than Biden.
At local level. Organize school board, dog catcher, judges, city council, planing commission, library board, community college board, do what the right wing does
This is really key, though the state level is probably most important. If your voting activism doesn’t go beyond the presidential election, it’s performative at most. A third party candidate without members of their party is state houses and Congress is going to be fairly ineffective even if they somehow did do the impossible and get elected.
And I’d add - get active the other 364 days of the year.
If we want better options we first need ranked choice voting and we need to get money out of politics. And none of that is going to happen if our only political action each year is voting.
Proud to say that in Colorado, ranked choice voting is on the ballot this year! It’s even supported by the big political names here, including the governor.
Honestly I’ve got a lot of hopes that overseas citizens will mail in so as to upset the polls.
And remember to vote for whoever you want. Just because you vote third party doesn’t mean your vote is wasted or to vote for somebody else because who knows who you would have voted for if it wasn’t for third party. Those people that say that shit can fuck off.
Edit: y’all are just as bad as maga losers. If I don’t vote for your guy, it’s a wasted vote. Just go out and vote, period, for whoever you want. Ignore all these people trying to get you to vote for their person. Vote for whomever YOU like. Nothing wrong with endorsing a candidate but trying to make someone look stupid or evil for voting is really pathetic.
yes but also if you’re in a swing state maybe don’t vote third party for the executive office. Rn the thrid party persidential candidates aren’t super strong, and the bulk of political momentum is bipartisan. Local and state gov is a totally different situation depending on your state.
like the working families party, who actually have some substantial influence in the new york area
Working Families is actually stronger than the democrats out here. I vote WF everywhere their name pops up. They got governors in out here in Oregon.
Good point. A candidate from a party that doesn’t really have a presence in any level of government and especially zero seats in congress will probably never have a realistic chance of winning the presidential election, barring some exceptional circumstances. If you like a third party, trying to make it viable at the local level and moving up from there seems to be the only realistic option to me.
I’m down for leaving people to vote for who they want, as long as they allow their protest votes to weigh heavily on their consciences when January comes around and we suddenly live in the fourth reich
I’ll never pretend to respect their decision. They might not even accept they were wrong when they’re inside the gas chambers. Besides, them feeling guilty is no justice for dooming people to death. It would be an injustice nobody could ever set right.
Either Harris or Trump are going to win the election. Not voting for Harris is voting for Trump. Yes, it fucking sucks, but especially if you’re a woman or a queer person, really think about whether you actually think it doesn’t matter which one wins.
Voting is not an endorsement of a candidate. It’s a tool. Don’t let them take away your rights while you’re waiting for the perfect candidate that will never come.
Remember: the only people who say this want to see Trump win. You can vote with your conscience all you want, but it’s only mathematically possible for only one of two parties to get elected.
If third parties or independents actually wanted a shot, they’d put in the work outside of elections, building coalitions and locally from the ground up.
They are all so against it but have no problem voting for it. It’s disgusting really. And they have the nerve to try make me look like the bad guy in this thread. There’s a bunch of shitty people here.
That’s probably the dumbest take I have read yet. If I wanted trump to win, I would vote for him.
Except it is wasted because there is literally zero chance a 3rd party candidate will win the presidency. If we’re talking lower offices, then maybe, but if you’re not voting Harris then you are directly assisting Trump.
There is value in showing third parties are growing more popular. It’s the first step that needs to happen for a third party candidate to become truely viable.
And yet, if there was ever a time where that isn’t worth it, it’s when fascists have a high chance of winning. Trump is not a right wing liberal; he wants to destroy the liberal world order that America controls just so no one can threaten his dictatorial power at home.
That may seem like it could benefit leftists elsewhere, but he wants to go to war with neighbors and bully other countries even harder than the liberal empire did. Where the American empire leaves, the Russian empire will take its place. All the while, an old man with no desire to leave a lasting legacy for his family or country is in control of the most powerful war machine on earth.
The first step that needs to happen is building up a third party through local politics, not ignoring politics for 3 years and 11 months and then suddenly expecting a third party to become viable.
Literally no. If they were gonna vote Trump instead but decided to go with Harris, their vote is worth the same as someone who would always vote Harris or the vote of a leftist who decided on damage reduction.
Any voting system flattens our personal motivations into a single action. Any statement you’re looking to make is moot unless you have a massive campaign to make it clear outside of the ballot box. Even then, the establishment can downplay and misinterpret your motivation as not being representative or as less important than what they want to believe.
There’s no better way to translate our will into results. Any system that doesn’t use free and fair voting can be tainted and colored by bias, making it impossible to ever undermine the will of the establishment. They will always choose to believe whatever is most convenient, but votes can deliver a reality shock that forces them to adjust their behavior, even if they never change their minds. The only other thing capable of that is violence.
any vote not for Harris is a vote for trump.
That’s not how tallying responses works at all. If you can put a tick in “Apples” or “Pears” on a list that collects the nominal data for fruit choice, you writing in “Sausages” is neither a vote for Apples nor for Pears.
Trump actually gets votes through 1) electoral fraud of various kinds, some of them still legal because the status quo is shit, and 2) appealing to bigots by being a huge bigot. Voting third party, or not voting at all, is not actually the problem. Focus on removing people from society who want bigots in power, and also focus on making electoral fraud impossible.
Don’t forget he has bars
Honestly we just had an election where I live where the options were (not to this extreme at all) but pretty similar in the “not great” vs “fucking awful” choices. Of course we had an actual third party with good policies but they had no chance. The race was so close here that in some areas the difference in votes was in the hundreds for the top two choices. They’re still doing recounts and I guess we’ll see, but every single fucking vote has counted on this.
I honestly don’t believe that not voting is ever going to work. If we want change we need an actual fucking revolution. Not voting, in American’s case, would just allow for the literal militants to take over and then you really won’t even have the choice to protest anything in the future.
We need to focus on prefigurative politics, I.e, build the world we want to see with direct action, unionizing, and mutual aid, since voting and governments are never going to do it for us.
However, who is in charge of your country will make those prefigurative politics more or less hard, or even impossible (can’t imagine much of the above going on in Nazi Germany…)
I think it goes without saying that it will be less hard under Harris.
