I really don’t care, do you?
If people didn’t vote for Harris it just means they are happy with fascists.
Pretty much this, by now pretty much everyone knows Trump and knows what he wants and what he stands for, and we had a referendum of sorts. If that alone isn’t enough motivation for someone to go to the polls or request a ballot it’s pretty disingenious for people to point fingers at the DNC or Harris because they weren’t jazzed up enough.
Like, if someone isn’t willing to stand in line for a couple hours in an attempt to ensure that their great-great-grandchildren have a habitable world in which to exist we’re a pretty hopeless species, right?
That’s one interpretation of what it could mean but one I expect is overly simplistic.
There is a difference between being happy with fascism and not feeling motivated enough to resist it. If the tide has any chance of turning towards what would be more healthy it will have to come by creating a platform that really excites and motivates a large number of people to invest in it. It has to feel authentic to those who are feeling unmotivated today eg the millions of former Biden voters who did not turn out. It should activate people who are not reliable voters to genuinely support the cause.
I’m no leftist but I do agree that Democrats and others whose main goals are to leave unchallenged the status quo of growing wealth inequality cannot win going forward. The promise of a truly experienced greater tangible quality of life, enough food, affordable housing, access to affordable medical care, debt relief, high minimum wages and/or UBI, etc would move the needle better towards excitement and engagement than abstractions like defence of democracy. “A chicken in every pot”. We need another FDR. We need a strong middle class and that has to mean powerful unions.
Edited for paragraphs.
Dude those are promises completely devoid of validity or meaning.
“Vote for me and I’ll fix everything”.
Trump says it: “great!! Let’s vote him”
Any democrat says it: “but how? Have you considered the plight of the fruitfly??? I cannot vote for you unless you explain everything in every detail”
I forgot that trump just needs “concepts of a plan”
Dems definitely lack a coherent, interesting economic message. Any new proposal - medicare for all, UBI - immediately gets sucked into a quagmire of details. Turning to Republicans for the votes they need to win in general elections has been such a consistently losing strategy that I have no idea why they keep doing it.
Meanwhile Republicans keep running on “You feel poor and it’s Their fault,” continues to resonate, for varying definitions of “Them,” as long as GOP is out-of-power. It’s simple. It feels good. It completely absolves them of needing any policy more complicated than “Get rid of Them.” It’s a winning strategy as much as the Dems have a losing strategy.
Yeah at this moment I am not ready for recriminations and finger pointing. A bunch of people voted FOR that idiot criminal fascist and I’m reserving all my rage for them right now.
great, lmk when that rage does literally anything productive
they already know youre mad at them. fun fact: it makes some of them even happier to vote the way they did. but, sure, be angry! oh those damn, foolish, selfish people! …
ok, yes, welcome to the last 40 years. hi!
now what?
Hey, I’m beyond doing anything productive at the moment and I recognize this. So how about you take a break from sniping at people who are probably on the same side as you are and let them take the time they need to process this so they can get to a place where they can chart a course of action?
I care because I’m not happy with fascists, and yet, due to others’ apathy, ignorance, malice, or a mix thereof I have to live in a land ruled by fascists.
88% of the dems didnt agree with assisting in the Israeli war crimes. And yet Biden/Harris (and trump) were going to do it anyway. But you want to preach about people who didnt vote for harris embracing fascism…
This cannot be the message.
The first, and foremost failure, is the Republican party. They are the ones who have chosen Donald Trump to lead. And secondly, they are the ones who built up an organization to turn him into the most powerful political force in America. I salute the Republicans who are still fighting the anti-Trump fight, but the cause is 100% lost. MAGA is now going to be a multi-decade ideology and there’s no way to pull Republicanism out of that trap in any short-term.
That means we need to truly, armor up and organize a fierce resistance. One that can overpower and overtake the MAGA movement. This means seeing MAGA for what it is: a cultural behemoth that commands over 75-million votes today, reliably. They have Elon Musk (Twitter/X). They likely have Zuckerberg (Facebook/Meta/Instagram). They have Washington Post (Jeff Bezos, who has recently replaces the heads with former Murdoch editors). They have LA Times. They have Gannett (and their 200+ regional / local papers). I dare say they own Reddit and likely were running social media interference at the lowest levels (with false stories of hopium. If you were on /r/politics you know what I’m talking about, focusing on shitty stories that Kamala was ahead)
Do you seriously think that all the major newspapers refusing to endorse Kamala Harris was some kind of freak accident? It was a preplanned move to specifically fuck us over. And it worked.
That is the nature of our opposition. They aren’t idiots. They are savvy. They are resourceful. They own the collective media space. And they use their power to get Donald Trump (a shitty man who is easily puppetted with praise), because they want a shadow puppet as their king.
And now that their king is elected, you can see Cryptobros pumping their cryptocoins, Stocks in various media companies flying high, etc. etc. They know they won and they’ll take the W today. But take a good look at America right now. In your depression, as you’re thinking about why Kamala won, you’re missing the real message.
Ask yourself: Why did Donald Trump win. And think about it. The answer is right before you and blazingly far more obvious than any particular action that was within Democrats or Kamala’s control.
DNC as an organization is shit.
I’m talking to Democrats. I’m trying to tell you what your next move should be. The movement and overall organization of the Democrat Party goes above and beyond just its leadership.
I’m talking to you, specifically. First thing we must do is understand why we lost, and that means understanding how Trump won. And the first step there is to stop taking him as a buffoon (even if he is), because there’s a lot of people helping him succeed. We need to think about the whole enemy here, not just Trump but everyone who helped him this year.
And instead of complaining to DNC leadership (who obviously tried everything they could to stop Trump), start thinking about how to defeat MAGA Republicans. Donald Trump is absolutely a shittier candidate than Kamala in every way imaginable. Its not a policy loss here.
And instead of complaining to DNC leadership (who obviously tried everything they could to stop Trump)
Emphasis mine! The last 48 hours have been wild to watch as a foreigner. American Liberals have got their heads stuck in a fantasy land, so far up their own asses, they might as well be MAGA-lite.
The DNC, and entire Democrat party, do not represent D voters. They represent the AmeriCorp plutocracy, who’ve bought and paid for 90+% of both parties the entire god damn time.
Let me put it this way. The greatest achievement the Dems have made in the last 15 years is the ACA — a republican plan — and what it achieved is still the worst health care system in the entire developed world (dollar for dollar). Democrats (probably you) touted this as a major success. Do you understand how much of a failed state that makes America look to the rest of the world?
Maybe one day you’ll understand that neoliberalism created the conditions for MAGA to exploit; that MAGA is just as much a failure of the Democrats, and neoliberalism, as it is of the Republicans, and conservatism. Doesn’t look like that’s gonna be anytime soon though, so get ready to spend the rest of your life under fascism because Liberals are making it abundantly clear that they’re never gonna get it.
Maybe it’s time you stop directing your anger at the left or right, and start directing it at the corporate whores who line your own parties ranks.
Every one of those MAGA people WANT the shit storm he will bring. It’s not even about politics for a lot of them. They want to own the libs. The problem with this two party system is that it literally splits us in two on a social level. To be blue, you have to want abortion and trans rights and be all “soft” and “liberal,” which for some reason makes people uncomfortable. And to be red, you have to want to take rights away from women and round up the immigrants.
The MAGA hate the “libs” more than the libs hate the MAGA… and that’s why they showed up in such great numbers.
Ask yourself: Why did Donald Trump win. And think about it. The answer is right before you and blazingly far more obvious than any particular action that was within Democrats or Kamala’s control.
What do you personally think the reason was?
Right wing taking over all of traditional media, newspaper media, social media and the left being utterly blind to the media blitz behind the scenes.
No Democrat or leftist was ready to counter message the loss of Washington Post’s endorsement, even though it happened after LA Times loss of endorsement.
The right wing pretty much always had control of the media. That’s why I put “liberal media” in scare quotes…what liberal media have we ever really had?
You’re going to get downvoted because you’re making some big swings here. I’d say you’ll end up being 50% correct when the numbers come out and everything is drilled into.
The singular fact that nobody seems to want to say is that you apparently can now just win by lying to voters, cheating the law, propagandizing everything, and bragging non-stop about doing so. He will not do anything for people in this country or the world, nor will Vance. It’s a bait and switch, plain and simple, and people are dumb enough to vote for it. This happened in Italy twice almost 100 years ago, and it took them 15 years to finally get mad enough to just revolt, and hang those people for display.
The unfortunate truth right now is there seems to not be the pushback for this in the US. People are willing to vote against themselves and their neighbors because Trump/Vance say they’re going to get you money while they are pillaging you at the same time.
The first, and foremost failure, is the Republican party.
They are not a failure. They are exactly what they want to be, they are exactly who they said they are, and they won the election. Sounds like the GOP is doing alright to me, from a GOP perspective.
Ask yourself: Why did Donald Trump win. And think about it. The answer is right before you and blazingly far more obvious than any particular action that was within Democrats or Kamala’s control.
Trump won because more people voted for him, plain and simple.
For 9 years now I’ve listened to fellow progressives wring their hands and breathlessly say “I just don’t understand how anyone could vote for him!” The problem, the real problem is that for like 95% of us, this statement is the end of the conversation. If the democrats want to win, they need to sit down and really, really consider the “why” of the Trump voter.
Yes, there’s racism and yes there’s sexism and yes there’s xenophobia and christian nationalism that all influence the far right, but there are also plenty of people voting R that don’t give a damn about that stuff. As the dust settles, it’s becoming increasingly clear that lots of voters voted split-ticket in this cycle, so blaming it all on dogma and party loyalty isn’t going to cut it — in fact, the data is suggesting that Americans are less loyal than ever to any particular political party, so what is it specifically about Trump that resonated with so many this time around?
I don’t have any exact answers to that question (which is honestly pretty embarrassing since we’ve all had 9 years to contemplate this), but if I had to guess, I’d say it’s something to do with the fact Trump actively acknowledges that things suck right now. “Make America Great Again” is a slogan that inherently implies we’re living in an empire in decline. Regardless of which side of the isle they sit on, I think most Americans can agree with the sentiment that things are getting worse, and have been for a while.
Of course, the two sides have wildly different ideas about why things suck — with the right largely blaming the decline on immigration or abortion or LGBT proliferation or some nebulous “eroding of traditional American values”, and with the left blaming things on regulatory capture, military adventurism, and the general corporate cannibalization of all our institutions and infrastructure. But both sides lately agree we’re heading in the wrong direction, so why is Trump’s message more resonant?
Maybe it’s because Trump presents them with more tangible “boogiemen” while the Democrats play ineffective defense by pointing at rising GDP or the surging stock market or low unemployment numbers — stats that do nothing to speak to the lived experiences of individual voters. Maybe Democrats need to focus their attention less on policy proposals and “hope and change” and more on “boogiemen” like the right. Stop campaigning against Trump, stop campaigning for incremental change, stop campaigning for culture wars, and start campaigning against people like Elon Musk. Start campaigning against union-busting Howard Shultz. Campaign against Amazon. Campaign against Mark fucking Cuban who hoards $6 billion for himself and then turns around and acts like he gives a damn about the working class while simultaneously padding the pockets of Democrats so that if they ever do actually win, he can be sure his tidy fortune won’t be at risk.
Is rent too high? Is the price of groceries becoming a burden? Have wages been stagnant for two decades? Fucking acknowledge it— no, don’t just acknowledge it, tell people they’re right to feel that way and that they should be fucking angry about it. Then spend every last campaign dollar and stump speech and political add attacking the people who made it that way. Rally people against an actual enemy, the real enemy, and maybe we’ll finally start voting for you without having to hold our noses. Of course, the DNC probably has too much vested interest in keeping their corporate donors happy to ever make this the message. After all, the Harris campaign raised nearly a billion dollars this cycle. Then again, what good is a billion bucks if it loses your the house, Senate and presidency?
Anyway, that’s just the two cents of a frustrated liberal who isn’t terribly surprised by the situation we’re now facing once again. Take it with a grain of salt — I’m just as dumb as everyone else.
I dare say they own Reddit and likely were running social media interference at the lowest levels (with false stories of hopium. If you were on /r/politics you know what I’m talking about, focusing on shitty stories that Kamala was ahead)
Finally someone else is saying it. Feels like I’ve been taking crazy pills.
Notice how the politics subreddit is basically operated like the_donald. It’s controlled opposition. During the 45th administration they made a huge deal out of every single thing Trump did. No matter how big or small there was megathreads. What happened during Bidens administration? Fuck all of attention to anything. It was like 50/50 chance on any given week the mods would bother to create big posts for anything significant the administration accomplished. Net effect of making Biden seem more ineffectual. It’s basic a strategy of skewing what people are seeing by subtly editorializing the feed.
Throughout the Harris campaign there was scarcely any good discussion about actual policies. There was no shortage of comments saying it looks like she has not much policy. Followed by rare replies that never get any upvotes pointing out yes there’s actually an easily digestible 80 page document.
They let the subreddit flood with newsweek articles about how well Harris is polling. Seems to be one of the main diversionary tactics.
All in all it appears reddit never recovered from the 2015-2016 the_donald coup. There was never an answer to that lrlourpresident account which was obviously astroturfing Democrat named subreddits.
I think much of the older userbase of anyone remotely left of center has gradually left by attrition over the years. Coincidentally between 2016 and today they’ve basically relaunched the platform bringing in whole new waves of unsuspecting users with the desktop redesign, phone app, and the IPO.
Something that hadn’t dawned on me until relatively recently with all the Musk Twitter bullshit. After reddit the company became independent from Conde Nast their chief source of funding is Thiel and Andreessen. Both we now know are hardcore MAGA supporting billionaires.
Steve Huffman calling those white supremacists on their platform “valuable discussion” is his “very fine people” moment.
ETA: The DOJ released documents from Russia stating they are to target “community of American gamers, users of reddit and image boards such as 4chan (the backbone of right-wing trends in the US segment of the internet)”. Emphasis mine. Comments linking to these documents were being inexplicable removed from the politics subreddit. This whole story got swept off the reddit news cycle real quick.
Instead of saying that Harris or the dnc dropped the ball, consider that over half the voting population in the US chose a senile, white, male, racist, felon who increased your taxes unless you were rich and stole classified documents, that is chums with Putin.
Maybe instead of “the dnc dropped the ball” it could be considered that the slight majority of Americans are just racist, sexist, uneducated, short sighted idiots?
No one needed to know much beyond seeing how bad trump has been. There shouldn’t have needed to be a “make Harris better” plan. America seen that trump shitbox and still chose him.
Fucking seriously though. I can see the frustration with the DNC, but some form of action is a hell of a lot better than the total dismantle of America as it is right now. These people could have easily looked into Kamala’s policies that show quite a few good ideas, and a few that I personally didn’t jive with (increase child tax credits, while the people like me and my partner are staunchly against having children that will grow into a world on fire, get absolutely nothing). Didn’t stop me from voting for her though, you know why? Trump has NO plan (GOOD plan, they’ve got PLENTY of bad plans lined up for us all!). AT ALL. So, America’s idiots STILL chose this orange buffoon, with no plans at all, just sparkly words, and now we are really sitting here and trying to blame Harris, who only had 107 days to get her message out there? Come on, Lemmy. I thought you were better than this…
You realize that you need people to have children if you want to keep having a doctor or firemen or farmers and so on? Child credits benefit you even if they don’t go in your pockets directly.
You’re the exact type of person that prevents social programs from being implemented, if it doesn’t benefits you directly then no one should get the benefits.
Can you go over my comment one more time, and point to me where I said I was against the credit completely? As in, I said I didn’t think it deserved to be there at all?
The government allowed lies to be told on TV and on the internet under the guise of news. There were no real consequences to those who had listeners and repeated foreign government talking points for money. We have not seen any real investigation on how much interference was ran on social media.
Nearly every human being believes that they are a good person making rational decisions, so its important to examine the environment around these people to where they can believe they made the right choice when it comes to electing Trump and sadly, it seems our mostly unregulated free speech that let it happen, because the republican party is more organized and effective in communicating their platform and slandering their opponents than democrats are, and they motivated more people to vote than the democrats could as a result. Anger and hate are strong emotions and motivators, and unfortunately the republicans keep on using them and it keeps on working.
I have no idea what you’re blaming Lemmy on, if anything I’d expect the userbase here to be more active and left-leaning voters than average. People have a good reason to be frustrated, and I think pointing that frustration at the only alternative option we had for a political party failing election after election to learn how to communicate and how to deliver on what the people really want is a reasonable take.
The government allowed lies to be told on TV and on the internet under the guise of news. There were no real consequences to those who had listeners and repeated foreign government talking points for money. We have not seen any real investigation on how much interference was ran on social media.
I agree.
Nearly every human being believes that they are a good person making rational decisions, so its important to examine the environment around these people to where they can believe they made the right choice when it comes to electing Trump and sadly, it seems our mostly unregulated free speech that let it happen, because the republican party is more organized and effective in communicating their platform and slandering their opponents than democrats are, and they motivated more people to vote than the democrats could as a result. Anger and hate are strong emotions and motivators, and unfortunately the republicans keep on using them and it keeps on working.
I agree.
I have no idea what you’re blaming Lemmy on, if anything I’d expect the userbase here to be more active and left-leaning voters than average. People have a good reason to be frustrated, and I think pointing that frustration at the only alternative option we had for a political party failing election after election to learn how to communicate and how to deliver on what the people really want is a reasonable take.
I’m basically pointing out how senseless some of these comments have been, on almost every single post about either Harris, Walz, or the DNC. The biggest problem this election, that we know of as of yet, was the absence of votes, and white men and women, Latino men and women, voting against a women of color.
The people here may be left-leaning, or at least say they are, but they have nothing but shit takes trying to blame Harris for a shit campaign. They actively chose to allow a fucking criminal to determine the future of their country. It is really quite a take, considering that she actually had policies, told you where to find them, and was CONSTANTLY berated on interviews and shit. Trump got softball questions, and no matter fucking what, he always got away with every single stupid and evil thing he did or said.
Crazy.
It’s nice to blame voters for parties failing to win elections. That absolves the party of responsibility - “we were right, it was voters who are wrong”.
But that won’t win an election. And that attitude will gift the mid terms and even 2028 to the republicans.
The DNC fucked up - it backed Biden despite clear signs he was not a good candidate for this election, the primary process who a fig leaf of democracy rather than putting forward the party’s best and brightest, it then fought concerns of Biden health and hid the truth, then when he finally stepped down late in the day it arranged a coronation for Harris. And then after behaving undemocratically repeatedly it had the gall to make the election about “saving democracy”.
Voters didn’t do these things, the DNC did.
Instead of demonising voters and non voters, it’s better to ask what should the party have done differently to win them over and what does it need to do to win them over in the mid terms.
It’s nice for you to ignore that over half the voters in this country voted for someone that they knew was a sexist, racist, felon. A slice of bread with no advertising should have gotten more votes than him.
@ColeSloth, ok, but what does it say about our candidate and campaign that they lost to such a clown? Thats what we should be focusing on, not name calling and finger pointing.
and as for:
The non-magas have to lock arms and stand together
88% of the dems were against gaza and the dem leaders decided they didnt care and would lock the voices of people who do care out of the convention. Thats acting like an imperial, not a coalition partner. If the dems want a coalition with the left, then act like it, otherwise you should learn to be happy with losing, because centrists dont have the votes to win much of anything, and they didnt have them before the election either.
Progressives are tired of this republican bullshit within the democratic party. If you want to be republicans, great, then go ally with maga. Otherwise tack left. You pick, we’ll be standing right here for a short while, then we need to ditch you lame centrists milquetoasts for good and go it alone.
It doesn’t absolve. If people are acting like it does, then they’re wrong and it still is true without absolving. It just points out that people voting for trump is overwhelmingly the problem.
And also, the Democrats ran their failed diet republican strategy. But if they fucked up twice as bad as they did, there’s sill no reason to vote trump, and that remains the main issue.
The non-magas have to lock arms and stand together until ranked choice, no electoral college, and no citizens united. That’s the front door to the future.
The non-magas have to lock arms and stand together
Except not all non-magas want to. You can scream and cry and call names all you want. They just don’t show up to the booth. So what should we do instead, because living in the imaginary land of what voters ought to do has gotten us another Trump term.
Kamala Harris truly is Hillary Clinton 2.0.
Many of Harris’s mistakes were similar to those Hillary Clinton made in 2016. Like Clinton, Harris cozied up to billionaire donors. Mark Cuban, for instance, said he was delighted that Harris was abandoning Democrats’ commitments to progressive principles and letting the business community propose the policies it wanted. Like Clinton, Harris and Tim Walz made hubristic campaign stops in solidly red states like Texas and Kentucky rather than spending the final days laser-focused on crucial battlegrounds. Like Clinton, Harris emphasized celebrity endorsements while failing to successfully court unions. (Most notably, the Teamsters declined to endorse her after she refused to pledge that she wouldn’t break a national railway strike.) Like Clinton, Harris focused too much on the danger of Donald Trump (which is very real) and not enough on the reasons why she would be good at being president herself.
You’re right that she was Hilary 2.0, but for the wrong reason.
It has very little to do with policy.
The difference between winning and losing was almost certainly just people who preferred a man over a woman as president. Whether they will say it or not, America is still not ready for a female president.
“In 2020, men were almost evenly divided between Trump and Biden, unlike in 2016 when Trump won men by 11 points.”
This election, Trump won men by 10 points again.
Democrats have got the largest share of women’s votes in every election since 1988.
Losing 10 points of the male vote isn’t caused by support for Israel, or a lack of progressive policies.
This is the sad truth.
It’s the economy. They can scream the economy numbers are great but the people are feeling it differently at the grocery store, gas station, paying rent, etc.
Right, economy. Both candidates ran on fixing it. But one wasn’t a black woman…
I’m not going deny that there were certainly sexist people that wouldn’t vote for a woman. But I don’t think I can agree it was the difference between winning and losing.
I think it’s much, much more likely that the progressive voting bloc that was able to start winning the primaries in 2020 and was railroaded by the party (twice) that’s been completely shunted off to the side in favor of some mythical swing Republican voter is very much the reason.
They think putting a woman of color up as the candidate would be enough to win that bloc. Which goes to show the root of the problem. It’s the rainbow capitalist issue. “If we slap a pride flag on the person of color we got as our new representative and change our single bathroom signs to say ‘all gender,’ we’ll be in the right! We’ll fool those hippies and socialist dirtbags yet!”
This has failed them. Over and over. The most thinking people of the entire country (biased opinion, I grant) aren’t easily appeased. Things were so bad in 2020 that bloc mostly held their noses to vote for Biden. And they figured running against trump was the only ammunition they needed to lock down that bloc and they could hold them no problem while also courting the neocons!
They are funding a genocide. Basically perpetrating it. They were going to have to bend over backwards to get anyone left of Biden to vote for them. And they unquestionably didn’t. They basically told us to go fuck ourselves. Again.
And they fucked themselves by doing so.
Your reasoning doesn’t explain the male vs female vote difference. Kamala won essentially the same percentage of the female vote as Biden, but lost because she didn’t capture male voters. Why would only male voters abandon her based on the policies you mentioned?
I’ll just say that all the policies she proposed seemed entirely uninteresting to me. Credits for first time home buyers and something about building new homes seemed like her main talking point. This is great for all the people that don’t currently own a home and want to but does nothing for most people that also need help.
It benefits you by reducing homelessness and poverty in general which has a much higher cost for society in the long run. Holy fuck you guys are so self centered.
That was not her message. So get off your high horse. It was “I’m going to build houses and it’ll save money for some people that probably aren’t you”. Periodt
But the exit polls showed that most people felt they were worse ofd today than 4 years ago. You expect all those people to read between the lines to figure out this will help make things better for them eventually? That’s not how politics works.
Do you really expect everyone to vote in the name of altruism? How naive can you be?
after she refused to pledge that she wouldn’t break a national railway strike
JUST LIE my god youll already be in office and can make up some nonsense why you had to break the strike (Im not antiunion, Im just saying)
JUST FUCKING LIE or were all the existential threats you wouldnt shut the fuck up about (instead of actually having a platform) not worth doing whatever you needed to get into power!?
… sigh
