Fediverse is the over-engineered great solutions that most people don’t understand
The analogy the other day works well, aside from the LaTeX one which still feels like a stretch
- Firefox : Chrome
- Linux : Windows
- LaTex : MS Word
- actual Fediverse : Bluesky’s Fediverseᵀᴹ
However I’m happy to be here. Mastodon is getting a boost right now too. Even if they didn’t, and everyone on Twitter moved to bluesky, I don’t expect those instances to close up shop
https://atproto.com/guides/applications
You can use atproto to build other federated applications.
Just because one implementation of atproto (bluesky) doesn’t have feature parity, doesn’t mean it’s a fake federated protocol.
‘actual fediverse’ and ‘bluesky fediverse’ doesn’t make sense as a comparison.
It’s more like, ActivityPub vs ATProto.
https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto
Bluesky is just one implementation of the protocol, that implementation happens to have a lot of steam, but it’s not fake or anything.
I wouldn’t call it fake, but the concern is about who created, maintains, and/or controls the protocol
ActivityPub was developed by W3C, and it’s properly decentralized. For Atproto, the concern is that Bluesky will exert control over the protocol once shareholders and profit get in the way of making a good product.
Last I heard they were discussing potentially moving the necessary registry/directory to a separate non-profit “like ICANN”, but even with that they seemed noncommittal about it.
I’d love to see more diversity in the federated space. Competition and iterative development is how we make things better. But I need Bluesky to take those necessary steps before I feel comfortable endorsing it over ActivityPub
I tried to explain the Fediverse to the marketing department at my company and the looks of confusion just made me gave up.
“It’s like email. We have our company domain and others have theirs and it all just works”
That’s a great start to an explanation, but first, you are assuming that people know how email works, and second, unlike email, federated social media has discovery, feeds, and in general content that gets pushed to you. How all of that works can be complicated and if you join a small instance, you may not realize how much content you are missing because of it.
Great! I never wanted 20 million users in my subreddits or irc channels or friend list.
We’ll all be happier this way. I’m happier this way, anyway.
Fiddling while the first real chance at breaking the corporate capture of the web burns because you want to feel intellectually superior to the normies is kinda shit, ngl
It would be super shitty if that’s how i felt.
I like that lemmy is small, and that people are kinda nice and that if you tell someone that they’re wrong about something its not a flame war.
20 million users is going to change that.
Also, if there was 20 million more users worth of content, the cost of running the infrastructure would increase as well.
Bluesky: install an app and make an account.
Mastodon: first pick a server. What does that mean? You figure it out. Ok, now select a client and install it. Doesn’t matter which one, but it actually does. Then use that client app to log onto the server you made an account on. Now you just need to figure out who to follow and you’re ready to participate!
Download “Mastodon” from an app store. Create an account. Post.
It’s been a few years since you last tried, right?
It offers you a server, which is a step up, but the option to pick a different one is still very prominent which is going to make some people ask questions and lead to the usual confusion and anxiety about picking the “right” one.
Anyone who has studied UX and how users move through an app knows that every step you make someone do has a huge drop off in user completion of that process.
Unfortunately that means that centralized, simple platforms will always have a distinct UX advantage over federated platforms. We have to make up for it by being simply better. (No ads is a good start.)
The how-to-search-for-people-to-follow thing caused me trouble with Mastodon. I could handle getting a client and an account, but actually finding people not on the same instance as me was a challenge. Discoverability was pretty broken.
Bluesky doesn’t seem to have that problem.
Lemmy I’ve stuck with because it handles that better.
The latest version of Mastodon does suggest accounts to follow. But you’re absolutely right - Bluesky being fully centralized can do a lot of things easier than it is for the Mastodon network. I have high hopes that @dansup@mastodon.social will help alleviate this a lot though with the Fediverse equivalent for “starter packs”:
AFAIK, Mastodon has exactly the same experience as BS if you just download the Mastodon official client and pick the main mastodon.social instance.
And as far as finding people to follow, just follow some hashtags to start with. Like #boston should immediately got you local users and news and #mac for computer news, etc etc. Following 5 or 10 hashtags will get you a pretty strong initial feed on mastodon.social, I suspect.
install an app and make an account
Mastodon is pretty much the same now
There is an option to pick another server, but non-technical users are probably going to glance over it entirely
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2022/04/official-apps-now-available-for-ios-and-android/
Gee . . . I wonder why
Users: ermagerd, I haVe to ChoSe a SeRveR! tHiS is SO diFFicUlT!!! 😭😭😭
“but you need to do the same for email…”
Discovery sucks out loud, federation is all to often at the whims of some admin in a pissing match with another server, even when you know someone you want to follow locating their account is a hassle, it’s slower than Bluesky to populate across federated instances, there isn’t a good app design out there for free, the web portal is inferior in both UX and UI to even Twitter, I could go on.
If you want to make strawman arguments, go ahead; but, you’re ignoring the real problems with Mastodon that have caused users to avoid it.
Discovery sucks out loud
It doesn’t have recommendation engine that forces everybody into certain streams of thought, how terrible. You want someone to do the thinking for you? Can’t think for yourself?
Federation is all to often at the whims of some admin in a pissing match with another server
The admin has *audible gasp* power and users can choose the server they want? It’s almost like they are free. Also twitter, facebook, insta and other sites have never banned anybody because they are bastions of free speech.
even when you know someone you want to follow locating their account is a hassle
I know search boxes are advanced tech for you, but the majority it really isn’t that hard.
it’s slower than Bluesky to populate across federated instances
“I want my content and I want it now!” OK, addict. Maybe going slow would be better for you. Relax.
there isn’t a good app design out there for free, , the web portal is inferior in both UX and UI to even Twitter
Would you imagine that, people who donate their free time and skills to a project without getting reimbursed need longer to design and implement something than those working full time on it for tens of thousands of euros a year. And of course there are users like you that want the free work for free. As soon as somebody asks for money “Oh no, then I’ll go to the VC funded alternative where I’m the product! At least it’s free!”
Always the same with you people. You want a free alternative that can compete with a product that has millions invested in it over multiple years but won’t accept anything less than perfection, otherwise it’s “garbage” and “unusable”.
federation is all to often at the whims of some admin in a pissing match with another server,
Yes, and that’s kind of by design. The whole system is not designed to emulate large centralized social media, but to enable content syndication and synchronization across independent publishing platforms. Each site, then, is hosting and serving content published on other sites.
If a site admin decides they don’t want to be in a contnt hosting agreememt with another, that’s gotta be seen as OK. I wouldn’t want to host most people’s blogs on my website. Especially if the publishing site had a poor track record of content moderation.
But services like Mastodon bend over backwards to hide the nature of the fediverse, and make it seem like it’s all one common place and experince. Most major fediverse platforms now fail to allow sufficient theming or site branding, and reinforce the idea that the local site’s community is meaningless, and is to be ignored.
It bypasses the whole point, so that everyone can get all shakey trying to avoid the FOMO.
there isn’t a good app design out there for free, the web portal is inferior in both UX and UI to even Twitter,
I agree with the rest of your comment but i love mastodon’s android app design and the web app design. They weren’t so great before but right now, they’re way better than either Twitter or Bluesky (which is basically Twitter anyway).
I want Mastodon to work as much as I want Lemmy to work but as long as all the people I want to follow are on/going to Bluesky I’ll be on Bluesky too. At least until it gets entshitified and everyone flees again.
