Seems to be purely to post misinformation with repeated claims that Russia is innocent and the US caused the Ukraine situation, that they’re stopping Ukraine from agreeing to Russia’s super amazing peacedeals, etc.
This is the sort of garbage one would expect to find on ML or Hex, is CA intended to be the same low quality instance?
While I agree with your assessment, I’d note that pretty much everyone at this point declares that whatever views they disagree with are “misinformation,” so proactively banning things solely because someone has declared that they’re “misinformation” isn’t a sound strategy.
And again, I agree with that assessment in this case. But that’s really beside the point.
I am with you…
OP, if you see misinformation correct the record so that everyone else can see there is a dispute and they can make up their own mind.
Hard Suppression of opinions is not good IMHO
Let idiots speak and let their idea be challenged.
Tankies and political subs expose their bias via the modlog and that’s the point.
Chanllange them and let them use that hammer so everyone can see their idiotic positions what they are
Hard Suppression of opinions is not good IMHO
Tankies and political subs expose their bias via the modlog and that’s the point.
If the modlog is that questionable, they should be given a fair chance to provide receipts for their censorship of users trying to correct the record, and if they can’t do that fairly, it should be on the admins to remove a community that is both spreading misinformation and censoring verifiable corrections.
I feel it shouldn’t be only up to the users filtering / monitoring modlogs of all the communities.
There a huge difference between what one thinks is misinformation, and what is proven to be misinformation though. It shouldn’t be hard for admins to suss the difference.
There a huge difference between what one thinks is misinformation, and what is proven to be misinformation though.
Epistemologically, yes. But for all practical purposes, at this point in time, there really isn’t, since anyone can find sources that purportedly “prove” that whatever they want to believe is true and/or that whatever they don’t want to believe is “misinformation.” It makes absolutely no difference what the claim in question is - somebody somewhere online has “proven” that it’s true, and somebody else somewhere online has “proven” that it’s not.
So what that means is that to avoid the trap of endlessly dueling contradictory claims, somebody is going to have to simply decree what is or is not to be considered to be true - which sources and purported proofs are legitimate and which are not - and that’s where it inevitably goes wrong.
And in fact, to go all the way back to the start of this thread, that’s exactly how hexbear and ml work. They maintain their bubbles by essentially arbitrarily decreeing that [this] is true and [that] is misinformation. And if you press them on it, they’re more than willing to post links to the “proof.”
How can any of this actually be proven to be misinformation? We’re here on our couches reading second/third/nth hand information. None of us were in the rooms where these decisions were made. None of us are on the front lines. The best we can do is make an educated guess on who is a credible source, and that’s especially difficult when everyone involved has an interest in lying about the situation when things don’t go their way.
Unlike Xitter and Reddit where black box algorithms spread information to users’ feeds, Lemmy uses people’s vote to increase or decrease proliferation. It seems to me that the posts in that community aren’t going anywhere given how people have voted on them. The primary filter seems to work as expected. Maybe there isn’t need for another.
Having a less popular Nazi bar is still having a Nazi bar.
And communities take time to grow, it’s only a month old. There isn’t any benefit in letting it fester until it’s a bigger threat.
If the litmus is not having a Nazi bar, I don’t think that’ll ever happen unless we gate community creation. On the wider fediverse, it’ll never happen. I think it’ll always be about how unpopular it is and we should use that as the litmus. The scaleable approach is people’s votes and personally this is why I’m on Lemmy.
So you suggest never trying to do anything, because you can’t be sure it will 100% be gone forever?
Think of it like a weed, when you see one you pull it out and move on with your day. Gardens require constant tending to.
I do not understand people here defending misinformation/intolerance as a merit of discussion. The dichotomy of naive or complicity.
People spreading misinformation and intolerance are not here for healthy arguments, you just need to check their history to see their dishonesty and ill temper.
In the meanwhile, accounts like the one OP highlighted are just creating trouble for mods of other instances to solve.
The problem is, who is the arbiter of that? There are essentially 3 types of moderation styles here:
Laissez-faire: Let people do whatever as long as it doesn’t actively hurt anyone. People can govern themselves and serious incidents are expected to be reported and dealt with. Some jerks will tiptoe around the rules but will eventually get caught. Lemm.ee, lemmy.ca and some others follow this.
Casual enforcement of admin-philosophy: Most topics outside of politically contentious ones are not strictly monitored. Mods/admins will root out communities, comments and posts that actively go against the narrative, particularly on threads on political topics like Ukraine, Palestine, etc… Lemmy.world and lemmy.ml follow this.
Strict enforcement of admin-philosophy: do not tolerate any potentially harmful statements (to that instance’s narrative or vibe). Any violation will be removed and repeated violations get you banned. This philosophy can be reasonable like Beehaw.org, which I think works very well for them and makes it a welcoming safe space, because there is no tolerance for bigotry and jerks. It can also be unreasonable like lemmygrad.ml, where dissent to the pro-Russian narrative is swiftly dealt with.
Admins of other instances should ban users that go against their philosophy from reaching their servers, if they follow the latter two styles of moderation. That’s how it is with federation, sometimes different instances have conflicting philosophies (the vegan one for example). It’s up to each admin to decide whether a foreign Fediverse user belongs in their kingdom. The moderation style that lemmy.ca has lets it be a good neutral place to discuss various drama and lore from other servers.
The problem is, who is the arbiter of that?
Intolerance is well-defined in many languages, and, so people do not confuse I am talking about milk intolerance, the hate crime is defined in many law codes across the globe, including Canada. There is no need for philosophical discussion of what is “intolerance”.
There is no need for a linguistic expert to realize someone’s discourse is ill intentioned, when the semantics of “the victim deserves to suffer” is the same as the call to action.
For countries that depend on common law, the account in question was already punished in other instances, creating precedent.
The modus operandi of these kinds of accounts are also well-know and documented. And popularity contests should not be a tool to define what is right in an online platform where there is no real accountability. How many upvotes do you think a single worker in a troll farm can generate in a couple of minutes?
We should not depend on admin humour for results (philosophies, as you suggest), but I agree that we should help when/where we can, their volunteer work is invaluable for the health of the instance.
I think that the discussions worth having in these kinds of posts are about methods, checks and balance to prevent bad decisions from people in power, and that people will be fairly treated.
Methods are many, and there are many examples out there.
- would twitter like community notes solve some of these problems or create more? Would lemmy repo accept such PR?
- the problem of twitter x Brazil: is it worth locking those accounts while an investigation is pending? One of them was instigating machete attacks in school/nursery. When would this lock be ok, or not ok?
- how long should people complain/report before a something (an investigation, a lock, or a conclusion) happens. - The account we both mentioned not in this thread (but in this post) went on it for 2 months before being banned - they did not leave on their own. …
Sure, we should not tolerate intolerance, “No Bigotry” is rule #1 here so if you see that then please report it. Misinformation, though? That’s the main thing OP is talking about and they gave a few examples, they are propaganda but not intolerance.
We have had multiple communities of that nature, all heavily downvoted. A previous example was Geopolitics where Russian and Conservative narratives were pushed daily. Eventually the creator, poster and community mod gave up, left and deleted it.
You can always block communities or instances that you don’t want to see. Every instance has its own policy on what types of communities are allowed, and how strict they must align with admin values.
I frequently disagree with Russian apologists, but pre-emptive restriction of viewpoints I don’t like doesn’t make for good discussion, even if in my eyes many of the arguments are on dubious ground. You see many complaints of lemmy.world and lemmy.ml admins enforcing certain policies and worldviews sitewide, which is fine for them to do, but not every server has to ascribe to that. Some servers restrict community creation to mods/admins, some like beehaw.org have a limited but curated set of communities. !conservative@lemm.ee is a hotbed of clown-take articles, doesn’t mean I think they should be banned.
If you see posts with harmful misinformation, or harmful behaviour by the mod of such a community, please report it to the lemmy.ca admins. Demonstrating a pattern of harmful behaviour with evidence will get the mod and community banned.
I vehemently disagree with an article posted there that having their experimental Mach-whatever missiles means that Russia and China’s going to get everything they want in a conflict, to me it’s a total bluff. But it was written by a Canadian so it would seem it belongs there, even if it is indeed a blatantly pro-Russian narrative.
Perhaps as a solution going forward: new communities start as private communities for the instance only, and then upon admin review and approval can be federated to other instances?
It’s well known that peace activists are just enemy spies. Everyone who protested against the Iraq War was a Saddam fanboy, all hippies were really bolchevik agent, and so on /s
Seriously, why aren’t you in ukraine if you care about it so much? Ah, that’s why, warmongerers only want other people to serve as cannon fodders
