American culture seems to be rife with men who went to the Marines and after being discharged of duty went on to either lead successful lives or who’s life took a turn for the worse and ended up on the street.
Of c, the two groups are not equal in numbers and the third much larger group lies in between these two groups. Now, I still am interested in the disparity between the extremes. Why do some people who join the Marines go on to create an over represent the Marines amount the successful, while others end up on the street? They are all given a clean slate somewhat and are exposed to the exact same environment, what do the successful learn which the unsuccessful don’t?
You’re assuming that the dramatically segmented and stratified experience is the “exact same service”, which is patently not true.
There’s a world of difference between a black officer who managed a supply line, a white non-comp who maintained aircraft, and a queer rifeman who witnessed half his unit die to an IED. And that’s ignoring rape, gang infiltration, religions discrimination, and plain ol “was your CO a jerk or awesome?”
I suspect that mental health and social support at home play huge roles here.
That’s true.
I have a question I can pose to anyone, but I am posing to you, do you think Lemmy focuses way too much on the things which we can’t control and disregards what we can? I.e., when I asked that question I wanted actionable steps on which I can base my life around, something to help me be better, instead every answer I have gotten seems to focus on things we can’t control.
I was thinking the answer would revolve around Attitude, Discipline and Mindset, and tho the answers are as revealing as these, I am not getting anything I can act on. Is Lemmy fixating on the negative 🤔
There are things you can manage, but they tend to be about controlling your environment.
JD Vance is the perfect example of someone that benefited from the military. Fit in (and let’s be honest being a straight white male still helps). Find a job that involves sitting behind a desk. Get some experience pulling a 9-5 for a few years, and then go to university for free. Don’t get injured. Don’t get PTSD.
All of this attitude with a capital A is too late. You can’t Attitude yourself out of a missing leg, and you can’t Attitude yourself out of PTSD. You can learn to cope better but coping well with PTSD is still worse than not having it.
Either have a plan to avoid danger or you need to be lucky.
I would assume it also has to do with your assignment and how much/if any combat you’ve experienced and injuries you sustained.
My Dad was drafted into Vietnam - infantry - and was wounded. He was only there ~ 6 months, and tried to go to university on the GI Bill, but for awhile couldn’t stand being in that type of environment immediately after returning home. PTSD/survivor’s guilt, etc, were too much.
Later on in life his injuries prevented him from being able to work. This, combined with rising medical debt, left us in a bad spot.
What you’re exposed to when you serve and when you served also come into play - PTSD is taken more seriously now, as are the effects of things like Agent Orange. I’m not sure if the VA is better or worse from, say, 20 years ago, but that could also be a factor.
Not sure if this helps to answer your question, but that’s my personal anecdote.
They are all given a clean slate somewhat and are exposed to the exact same environment
OK, try actually imagining this “clean slate” and “same environment”. Imagine yourself, right now, going to boot camp alongside someone who’s lived a life of relative privilege with lots of educational and exercise opportunities - someone better educated, fitter, even taller than you. Imagine yourself alongside someone who lived a life lacking in privileges - a crappy or unfinished education, not particularly healthy, shorter than you.
Imagine how you and those two hypothetical people tackle the different obstacles this “same environment” gives you - imagine going through an actual obstacle course with them. How easy or hard does each person find each obstacle? Will a short person find climbing a rope or wall as easy as a tall person? How about balancing on a log, crawling under wire, or jumping over a ditch?
A “clean slate” isn’t any kind of reset of their abilities and experiences. “The same environment” inherently means it challenges their individual abilities differently. They get different outcomes because they were different people to begin with, so react differently to their experiences, like everywhere else in life.
Excellent points. The military is a human endeavor, and is just as rife with all the same issues as any other organization, with all the expected biases. Boot camp is tiny part of overall service, and honestly barely relevant to the day to day. Mostly, you will have the same experience in the military as out, just with added hardships. People are still people, even when in uniform.
An attractive, fit, nuerotypical, charming person will have a much better experience than someone out of sorts with the above.
The military doesnt stamp you and everyone elese into the same person. It just presses you into a specific shape to do the specific task they need. Everything else is still there, if not exacerbated by the trauma of it all. They earnestly dont give a shit if that task destroys or improves you, as long as you do the task for the time allotted.
Different outcomes happen because people are different.
In the military there are two separate classes, officers and enlisted. Officers had at least a bachelor’s degree and the military is a much different experience for them. They come in day as leaders, are paid significantly more, and have more opportunities to make lifelong connections with powerful people.
Enlisted are treated like blue collar workers, the grunts. Just in their day to day jobs enlisted people are going to have more wear and tear on their bodies. Take battle experience out of it, just as is, officers have a much better path forward.
Fraternization is illegal between officers and enlisted which basically makes it two segregated classes.
Enlisted folks also tend to come from lower income families, so while they are giving more opportunities than staying in their home town it can still be difficult for them to advance much higher.
In short, you have a large mixture of people from different ways of life with different education levels. Some take advantage of stuff like the GI Bill or other opportunities,. others don’t. Also some give their bodies to the extent that they can’t really function at the same levels on the outside.
