You know, I fucking hate Trump but I prefer to save my outrage about things he actually said and did. If you really wanna dunk on him, this ain’t the time. Look at the actual quote:
“The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”
I mean, I can’t really disagree with that. I’m fucking SICK of journalists converting everything into clickbait. You want some things to be angry about? Here’s some ACTUAL shit he did the same week:
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October 16, 2019: During a meeting with congressional leaders about the situation in Syria, President Trump reportedly referred to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as a “third-grade politician,” leading to Pelosi and other Democratic leaders walking out of the meeting.
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October 17, 2019: At a campaign rally in Dallas, Texas, President Trump criticized the ongoing impeachment inquiry, labeling it a “witch hunt” and attacking political opponents, which some viewed as inflammatory rhetoric.
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October 18, 2019: President Trump announced a “permanent” ceasefire in Syria and lifted sanctions on Turkey. Critics argued that his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from northern Syria had enabled Turkish military actions against Kurdish forces, leading to regional instability.
If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there’s plenty of actual shit he does. No need to make up shit just to get clicks. Fuck you lazy journalists!
“The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”
Yeah that’s not actually incorrect too badly. Well perhaps the “bound together” bit but like history for the massive systems, yeah, it is somewhat shared. Common law and whatnot. Although Italy definitely doesn’tuse common law anymore so Trump would be better of comparing US to brits in that sense.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Why promote inaccurate bullshit and ignore the actual shit he does?
Oh wait, right, propaganda and shit “journalists”.
Thanks for the info on those happenings, btw.
Yeah that’s not actually incorrect too badly. Well perhaps the “bound together” bit but like history for the massive systems, yeah, it is somewhat shared. Common law and whatnot. Although Italy definitely doesn’tuse common law anymore so Trump would be better of comparing US to brits in that sense.
I doubt Italy ever used common law as that originated in Medieval England. It’s civil law that descents from Roman law (specifically Justinian’s codification of it). Since civil law is way more common around the world most countries have more in common with Rome than the US (or other Anglo countries) do.
You are right however that trying to portray the US as a modern ‘Rome’ is not a Trump thing but common American propaganda.
I may have been aware of the fact that that’s sort of what I was trying to say, but I didn’t have enough knowledge to distinguish “common law” from “civil law”, despite having the ability to actually define common law as it is. I didn’t have the term “civil law” is what I’m saying. Thank you for that. There was a gap in my knowledge and you patched (at least some of) it.
I wasn’t specifically aware of when common law started. I looked it up just now, and apparently “in the courts of English kings in the centuries following the Norman conquest”. So… perhaps it’d be more accurate to imply common law is Nordic as opposed to Roman? In a very indirect way.
I mean, I can’t really disagree with that.
You can’t? Just bookending two countries based on an elementary school student’s understanding of world history doesn’t bother you even a little bit? Nevermind the implicit neo-fascist context of the observation. It’s straight out of the Mussolini speech catalog to invoke Ancient Rome and Modern Italy in the same sentence, despite the only meaningful relationship between them being geographic. Might as well compare modern Macedonia to the Persian Empire or the Yucatan Peninsula to the old kingdom of the Mayans or to call Germany a nation of Huns.
Even setting aside the fascist undertones, It’s pure shameless empty-headed pandering. Shit I’d expect out of Eric Adams or George Bush Jr, just being spouted as route pablum regardless of context or historical accuracy. Holding Trump up as uniquely annoying and stupid on this front is what’s obnoxious. Lots of politicians just say airhead nothingburgers like this regularly.
If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there’s plenty of actual shit he does.
You’re allowed to be annoyed from time to time by the neo-fascist ramblings of a racist dipshit, as a treat.
To keep this in context, this was a softball discussion with Trump from 2019 where he made some stupid throwaway comment about some supposed commonalities between the USA and Italy. If this annoys you THIS BADLY I don’t know what to say. Pick like any of the 50 things Trump did this week and they are more relevant than this trashy article.
A wise man once told me “you must choose your battles” and for me, this is one of those times. This is such low stakes stuff compared to all the other crap he is doing. Don’t let some lazy journalist distract you with this crap today. Look at some ACTUAL nasty things going on, like Trump talking about reducing Social Security. Save your rage for when it matters. If you let every lazy article that misquotes Trump rustle your jimmies like this, it’s going to be wildly unproductive.
If this annoys you THIS BADLY I don’t know what to say.
If you know the history of fascist propaganda in the 1930s, this dog whistle will blow your eardrums out.
A wise man once told me “you must choose your battles” and for me, this is one of those times.
There’s no battle. It’s just another news cycle reiterating what everyone already knows. Trump’s a fascist who is steeped in the revanchist mythology of the movement.
If you let every lazy article that misquotes Trump rustle your jimmies like this, it’s going to be wildly unproductive.
If you ignore every instance of Trump playing footsie with European fascists, half his foreign policy becomes a topic you’re not allowed to talk about.
No one can be this stupid, surely?
the quote has been deliberately misrepresented
He actually said “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”
which could be inferred to be a reference to the large number of italian americans especially on the east coast and their effect on the US culture and the fact that much of the US political system is inspired by southern european governments. Ancient Rome had a senate too
Also that the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern countries with a court, parlament and executive power. The American fumbling fathers even went so far as to copy many parts of it. Hence the name senate for instance. And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So you get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC
the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern counties with a court, parliament and executive power
The Roman consul and senate are nominatively similar to modern parliaments. But their functions were radically different. You don’t have MPs and Senators obtaining their positions by leading armies of conquest abroad and bringing back slave captives to be tributed to the imperial core. You don’t have civil wars to decide the next President or a pagan faith that places the nation’s political leadership in the pantheon of occupied territories at sword point. You don’t have a single city’s local residents comprising the near-totality of the national body politic.
The American fumbling fathers event went so far as to copy many parts of it.
The iconography. Not the function. The actual political system was based on local colonial government organizations built on the back of the founding compacts of the first settlers. Local assemblies and mayoralities and governorships were features of European colonial rule, not Roman republicanism. State assembles and a national legislature/executives were features of Dutch protestant joint-stock company boards/executives not Roman dictatorships. Courts were based on the English Common-Law system not Roman Codes.
FFS, early American politicians knew jack shit about Roman civilization. They were working off of pseudohistory largely invented during the era of Charlemagne and passed telephone-style through editorialized written and oral histories for the next 1400 years. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison looked at the French Catholic aesthetic, which sought to invoke Roman art and architecture, and cribbed it to appeal to his snobby know-nothing American Protestant peers. Also, a ton of Freemason wink-wink shit. That’s why they were putting pyramids and fasces on all their early works.
And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So toy get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC
That’s absolutely true. Although the real neoclassical look of DC wasn’t really the focus of the city until the 19th century, because that shit was expensive to build and you needed Lincoln’s greenbacks and the industrial revolution machinery to complete big iconic construction projects.
But it was all aesthetics, no substance. A bunch of ionic column toppers does not a Roman political system make.
I made a short and very simple reply. I am not American so I have a cursory knowledge of the history and early culture. Your reply is far more eloquent than anything I had the patience to write on phone :) I will not argue your points.
When I made the reference to Palladio it was because especially Jefferson was greatly influenced by himand responsible for much of the early DC buildings like The Capitol and The White House. I don’t know how much Jefferson knew about ancient Rome, but he did own a copy of I quattro libri dell’architettura (among very many other book)
Mormonism.jpg
ITT a bunch of ripe misinformation targets.
To be fair, Trump is quite very damn old.