Perhaps the most interesting part of the article:
This is starting to feel more and more like a planned property grab.
I think it’s much simpler honestly: fires like these have been happening every year in California for the past hmm… at least 5 years, maybe more. Insurances are simply catching on and doing what any for-profit company would do in this situation, avoid losing money.
There was a wildfire in the area last month. A couple years ago, a wildfire burned down a bunch of Malibu, a few miles away. I would be very surprised if wildfires in the area stop happening.
I think that maybe the most-reasonable solution is for insurers to just ramp rates way up unless a home is built to be extremely fire-resistant – just assume that there are going to be wildfires that dump embers in the area sooner or later, and that if your home isn’t constrained such that it is able to withstand being showered with embers without going up in flames, that it’s going to be insanely costly to insure, because it’s likely to burn sooner or later.
Even if one specific house is a concrete bunker, if it’s in the middle of normal homes, the bunker still faces potentially 1000 degree temperatures from surrounding homes, and shit’s going to burn.
You could pave everything; put in some 100-yard paved firebreaks; who know what else. Or you could just accept that there’s going to be a lot of climate refugees fleeing high risk US states. All the heads-in-sand people thinking it was just Tuvalu and Kiribati at risk going to wake up and find out it’s LA and Miami, too.
Maybe? They’re not sure if this guy is linked.
Warning: MSN link ahead:
Alleged Arsonist Arrested In Los Angeles Amid Deadly California Wildfires: What We Know
ETA: Also, 3 fires started all at once looks a little wonky in January.
Edit 2:
…though law enforcement officials have said they cannot confirm a connection between the arson suspect and any of the deadly fires currently burning through California.
One of the women involved in the citizen’s arrest, Renata Grinshpun, told local news he had a “propane tank or… like a flame thrower” and that someone saw him “behind a van, trying to light something on fire.”
Any spark that wasn’t dealt with immediately during Santa Ana’s that severe (60-100 mph gusts, constant wind around 40 mph), and during a severe drought, AND with humidity below 20% was going to blow up.
It is wonky that it happened in January, because historically that’s when we’re getting rain, but that hasn’t happened this water year. For all practical purposes we’re still in the dry season.
The insurance companies had an obligation to maximize shareholder value. That is the sole purpose of insurance companies.
The insurance companies had an obligation to maximize shareholder value. That is the sole purpose of insurance companies.
Look, I get that this is an easy go-to answer for many things, but please add this to expand your understanding a bit more so you have a more complete picture.
Not all insurance companies are public companies with shareholders to satisfy. Mutual Insurance companies are owned by their policy holders. Specifically with California, both State Farm and Liberty Mutual have both exited too. These are both large insurance companies that are NOT driven by “shareholder value”. Profits these companies make are issues as dividends to the policy holders, not shareholders.
So the issue of insuring property in California is more than just the standard “greedy shareholders” argument.
This is a really dumb take. Pulling out of a market where it’s impossible to even break even is not greedy or corrupt.
Yoink goes the coverage that you paid into!
And the shareholders rejoice.
Your homelessness is a you problem. You should have paid for some coverage in the event of such an occurrence.
That’s not how it works at all. You’re thinking of health insurance. This thread is about insurers declining to renew contracts, not denying claims.
Insurance companies are scummy but the headline phrasing makes it seem like they JUST canceled the policies…but no, it was 6 months ago.
As much as I want to hate them for it, can you really blame them? Insurance operates under the measured assumption that most people won’t have to use it for some major. When wildfires become probable, it’s almost guaranteed to cost them exponentially more than homeowners paid in premiums.
Even if insurance cost $50,000/year, it would take several years of payments to cover the payout. And California has wildfires yearly.
I think you might have missed the point.
I mean it would be great to have some kind of socialised home insurance that wasn’t “for profit”, but such a scheme should still refuse to insure homes which are likely to burn down.
That probably sounds good in your head. But you are only thinking of fires. What if they just pick the highest risk factor for every house and refuse to cover that. Then what would be the point of the insurance. And if you consider all the houses that are a high risk for something… fire, hurricane, flooding, high winds, tornadoes, earthquakes… you aren’t left with many houses.
Insurances need to cover their expected cost with the rates, otherwise they won’t be able to cover in case of an incident. Nobody will run an insurance expecting a loss, and you can’t force anyone to.
The alternative is like when we had flood that the state bails out the boomers who bought houses when they were cheap in areas where insurance won’t insure because of risk, paid with taxes by people like me who have a hard time acquiring property because taxes and other cost are so high due to decisions their generation and earlier ones made.
Of course, this is somewhat exaggerated; they also pay taxes. But it’s also not completely wrong.
In the particular case of a previous colleague’s house getting flooded, I always had to think of the fact that she chose to fly a certain route for work to save about 2 hours because it’s just so much more convenient than the train.
I mean it would have happened with it without her flying, but still thought about it.
Man insurance is such a scam. They’ll only actually offer hypothetical coverage if they know you won’t need it 😅
Actually need it? “Well, we have to make a profit! Why would we pay for that thing you’re paying us to cover?”
Yeah it is. I made a claim for hail damage then It made me uninsurable/insane premiums when I moved for 5 year, no fault thing from mother nature but ya know it’s my fault they had to pay out. I was told if I made 3 or more claims in 5 years I be uninsurable, hoping my home stays safe from this fire that’s 2miles away from me…
The thing is if you buy a home and in California it’s likely 1mm plus in the la region. You’re paying huge mortgage rate more so with insurance and the recent rates basically house poor. If you loose your house you still have to pay the bank so you can’t afford to live anywhere right? So with out insurance buying a home is one step away from being destitute?
It’s needs to be a state sponsored thing and nonprofit. Like fire departments if everyone loses their home who’s left to taxes, or even stay there.
I live 1 mile from the no insurance zone and in Los Angeles it took me weeks to find anyone to even cover our home after being dropped because “we have a flat roof” we don’t, it’s bs excuse.
Seems to me non privilege stuff should be a government run thing. Everyone should have a right to health care and housing and food. None of this shit should be for profit, fuck insurance.
Sorry realized I went on a rant.
I’m in a safe-ish area and was told 2 claims in 3 years and they wouldn’t renew my insurance. Been here over 20 years and had one claim 10 years ago.
Had lightning hit and called the insurance directly, they opened a claim number but we ended up not using it. Meaning they paid $0 because it turned out to be a simple fix, it was just scary in the moment at 3am with water gushing out (not into the house). So we just paid the $300 to fix it and they closed the claim.
Two years after that we called when a tree hit the house, went a different route and called the independent agent first, not the insurance company directly and that’s when we learned if we started a claim for the tree damage, they probably wouldn’t renew. Ended up being almost $3000 out of pocket so we can keep the house insured and the mortgage company happy.
Man insurance is such a scam. They’ll only actually offer hypothetical coverage if they know you won’t need it 😅
Actually need it? “Well, we have to make a profit! Why would we pay for that thing you’re paying us to cover?”
An insurance company takes the data it has about whatever someone wants to insure, uses its actuarial system to find out what its risk value is, and then charges you slightly more than that value over time.
You will probably never need the service, but if you do, they’ll help you out. Because they’re charging more than the actual risk value, over time and over a large enough subset of clients, they’ll make some profit, even while paying to replace or fix people’s houses. Which is fine, they are providing a service and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with profiting from providing a service. You win, they win, everyone benefits.
In return, you get the peace of mind of knowing that if the worst happens, you’ll be at least somewhat better off and able to afford to rebuild.
If the risk of event X gets too high in an area, and the company isn’t allowed to say, “You’re covered for everything but X,” the company would either need to charge enough to cover essentially the value of the house on such a short timeframe as to be untenable, or stop providing coverage. They don’t have infinite money, so if they‘re forced to provide coverage at a lower rate than the risk level, and something like a massive hurricane or flood or fire happens, they go bankrupt. Now no one gets their house rebuilt.
Just because a company only operates where they make a profit doesn’t make them a scam. They aren’t a charity or a public service.
Man, this thread is reminding me that Lemmy is even worse than Reddit when it comes to being populated by people who have strong opinions about things they don’t understand at all.
So many people here are speaking as if real estate insurance companies are doing something evil by pulling out of markets where it’s impossible for them to make a profit or even break even. The companies are not reneging on any obligations, just turning away customers they can’t afford to insure, and people here are responding by saying things like all insurance is a scam, and the insurance companies abusing their customers to enrich their shareholders.
I get the feeling they’re taking their opinions of the private health insurance market and applying them to insurance in general, and in doing so they’re demonstrating a lack of understanding of what insurance is for, why it’s required for certain purchases, and why people choose to do business with insurance companies even when they don’t have to
