Summary
Trump plans to lift the Biden administration’s freeze on supplying 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and reverse sanctions against Israeli settlers.
Well, would you look at that, third-party protest voters / abstainers / “undecideds”: you saved Palestine. /s
The undecideds are about as dumb as the maggots. They were told, over and over, that they were effectively voting for a fascist. But they couldn’t imagine that the leopard would eat their faces. Now, that fucking guy will make “Genocide Joe” look like a god damn saint.
The undecideds are about as dumb as the maggots.
Supporting and voting murderers with bloods on their hands is much much worst than being dumb and not voting.
Now, that fucking guy will make “Genocide Joe” look like a god damn saint.
Sound like you haven’t seen any footage from inside gaza or you would know that there’s no saints in hell.
Refusing to hold Democrats accountable is also voting for Fascism. If your vote is 100% reliable to the Dems, they don’t have to do anything to win your vote. And thus, they can completely ignore you and everything you care about. The Dems have moved so far to the right that modern Republican Fascism doesn’t seem completely unreasonable to many people by comparison. After all, Democrats firmly embraced what was far-right immigration policy just a few years ago. Democrats have made a hard turn to the right. This has forced Republicans to move even further right into Fascism. And if things continue down this path, with Democrats never being held accountable, eventually both Democrats and Republicans will be overtly Fascist.
That is what happens if a party is never held accountable.
Refusing to hold Democrats accountable is also voting for Fascism.
As mentioned oh, so, so, so many times, voting for the least worst option doesn’t preclude holding them to account. That part comes after, once democracy is assured.
Except, people voted for cruelty and fascism to really stick it to the Dems. Now there’s worse fascism and no democracy.
Good job.
Feel proud.
That’s a good point. My vote was pragmatic over principle. The dems need to be held accountable, but they won’t. There needs to be a major overhaul of the party, but realistically I don’t see that happening any time soon. For the foreseeable future this is what we are stuck with.
That whole be the change thing is horseshit in this day and age.
The primaries are where the accountability should happen. For the vast, vast majority of elections in the US the winner will be either the Democratic candidate or Republican candidate. And you can turn in primary ballot without voting for any of the candidates. Your participation is then a matter of public record, and campaign managers will be inclined to try and win your vote.
edit - you can also become an actual party member, maybe even a delegate, and vote on leadership.
Yes, “held accountable” because you can’t imagine a world in which geopolitics means you can’t just cut off all support to an ally with an “or else”.
The only thing worse than the morons too stupid to see that Trump is going to do what he says, are the morons who think that you can just drop all aid to Israel overnight and nothing will happen. Do any of you have ANY idea how intertwined both our military and tech sectors are?
If by saving, they meant “it literally won’t exist” anymore, then yeah. 2000 pound bombs are good for leveling entire city blocks.
Most of Gaza is already leveled and uninhabitable. They didn’t need 2000 pound bombs.
They’ve been dropping these 2,000lb bombs in Palestine and several of their neighboring countries for quite some time now. It’s pretty odd that people are trying to act all self-righteous about this when Trump is just continuing the exact same policy that Biden was.
Trump is just continuing the exact same policy that Biden was
This article is literally him reversing a Biden policy.
Yes leftists are the problem. Not the half of the country that willingly and happily voted for this.
Edit: Is there even any evidence that having protest voters vote for Kamala would’ve changed anything? Since I’m getting dogpiled here I want to clarify I was not a protest voter but everyone on Lemmy and Reddit keeps sharing this exact same sentiment
No, there isn’t. They just want to blame the left for centrism failing. Arabs and anti-war sentiment are convenient and evergreen “bad guys” in centrist politics and one that has been actively reinforced by the media since the genocide began. It’s a convenient scapegoat for an across the board failure of a centrist campaign.
And if this was actually the linchpin, then it wasn’t exactly a big surprise. The whole movement was trying to raise the issue and was repeatedly ignored.
Not all leftists are this problem. Just the ones who didn’t vote for Kamala in an otherwise winnable state.
Where do you draw the line? The problem with “vote Blue no matter who” is that you give the Democrats more and more license to drift further and further right.
Kamala thought wrongly that she could completely abandon the progressive base. She fully embraced conservative positioning on Israel, the US border, and other issues. She ran a right wing campaign, compromising issue after issue to appeal to centrist Republicans.
Kamala’s degeneracy was only possible because of the attitude you espouse. Because as long as progressives are willing to “vote Blue no matter who,” there is nothing to prevent Democrats from drifting ever-further to the right.
The modern political landscape exists precisely because of the fact that for decades, progressives have been voting “Blue no matter who.” Democrats haven’t had to work hard to secure their base; they’ve taken them for granted. This has allowed Democrats to slip further to the right. As Democrats have slipped further right, Republicans have responded by moving into outright Fascism.
You are unwilling to ever hold Democrats accountable. And by doing so, you guarantee that eventually the presidential race will be “KKK vs neo-Nazis,” as Democrats themselves drift into Fascism.
I voted for Kamala, but you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine. They’re both full-on Zionists. Giving them some bigger bombs won’t change things much. They already flatten entire neighborhoods at a whim.
If two candidates will likely both be abominable on an issue you care about, you might as well vote to hold the one representing the party that has already committed genocide accountable.
You realize the conversation started because Trump reversed the ban on the sale of some type of bombs which Harris wouldn’t have done, right? Because right away it shows a pretty meaningful difference.
And you realize the genocide in gaza started because the government Harris was the vicepresident of backed israel with “whatever it needs”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine
Kamala called for a ceasefire.
Trump said Biden should “Let [Israel] go and let [Israel] finish it.” and now he’s saying we’re going to give Israel bigger bombs to do it while removing economic sanctions on Israeli occupiers.
How can you say there is no meaningful difference?
Kamala called for a ceasefire.
So did Biden. She also said she couldn’t think of anything Biden had done that she’d have done differently. There’s a good reason people were skeptical about her being any different from what’s already happening.
I despise Trump, but I do not buy that argument for a second. You’re clearly taking a meaning that you’re inventing on your own, not from the text itself. “Let Israel go and finish it” could just as easily be interpreted as “they need to wrap this war up and reach a cease fire.”
Kamala called for a ceasefire, but her and Biden wouldn’t lift a pinky finger to actually produce such a cease fire. Trump seems to have actually succeeded at getting a ceasefire.
you have to be pretty dense to think that there is any meaningful difference between how Kamala and Trump would have handled Palestine.
This is just blatantly disingenuous. It is not aligned with reality. You’re either delusional or you’re pushing a false narrative intentionally.
I love that your defense here is: “Look at that, you’re just as big of a piece of shit as we are.”
But in reality, they’re objectively more moral than you are in voting against genocide. That it may happen anyway doesn’t change that.
There are many more issues beyond Gaza. The environment, healthcare, social rights, immigration. They are complicit in all of it.
Yesterday Trump declared “War on Transgender” and his desire to eradicate transgenderism in the US. Musk threw a literal Nazi salute. They immediately put out an EO targeting trans people. Non-voters and 3p voters are complicit in this and in what is about to happen to trans people in the US.
Or course, they don’t have the moral stain of a Trump supporter but “not a literal Nazi” shouldn’t be the baseline it is.
So why should someone care about any of these issues, while you demand them to ignore the issue they care about?
Why do we accept the Democrats pitting transrights against arab childrens right to life?
Actually Harris voters are responsible for all of this because they heard this incompetent and unqualified person fumble through softball interviews saying absolutely nothing at all and looking like a complete fool and they all still voted for her. They all voted for a loser.
She had no policy. Every answer to questions was an evasion.
Blue maga is real.
By not voting, you voted for genocide under Trump. There is no neutrality against fascism, and there is no nonparticipation. You’re either against them or you’re with them.
Genocide under Trump vs. genocide under Biden isn’t a big moral difference. Your argument is supposed to be that the other moral issues are critically important, not that the flavor of genocides are important.
Is it really “voting against genocide” when they voted against all the arms shipment pauses that are now being overturned? They voted against an administration, that administration lost, and now the winner has hit the ground running making the genocide immediately worse. What’s “objectively more moral” about increasing arms shipments to genociders?
Not to beat the dead horse but… Those who said “I won’t vote Democratic because Gaza” were either lying or delusional.
In 2028 there won’t be any Gaza, what will be the next line?
This is the tragic truth.
The most frustrating part about it is that withholding votes was framed as a principled position. And I’m sorry, but that’s asinine. How many of those people who declared that they wouldn’t vote for the democratic ticket because of their action/inaction on Gaza actually did anything more than posting rants on social media? How many raised funds for aid? How many organized rallies, protests, or educational outreach? How many even so much as contacted their representatives?
It is either naivety or complacency to believe that national policy should change just because you and your friends sent around some memes. And it is callous indifference to base your vote on a single issue and then claim that you’re inhabiting the moral high ground.
If you yell into the void, you shouldn’t expect a response. And if you believe in an issue, either take action or acknowledge that it would be staggeringly arrogant to expect other people to put in work that you yourself won’t do.
I think most of them were state sponsored psyops or really shit trolls. I don’t think most actual real marginally rational thinking people would have such a dumb af take.
You would think, and yet they’re still around parrotting the same narrative. Hell, there’s at least one in the comments of this very post.
Assuming that anyone with a contrary opinion, no matter how ridiculous you might feel it is, is being disingenuous is an easy way to underestimate them.
I don’t think most Americans care enough about Gaza for it to affect their vote (or for it to cause them to choose not to vote). Some, certainly, but not enough to have made a difference. This was about groceries being expensive.
The numbers seem to tell a different story, actually. Mind you, this is one poll and it’s among people who did not vote giving a reason for not voting after having not voted, but the numbers aren’t insignificant
It was a combined effort to suppress voter turnout. Provide every possible reason to tap into that bernie bro “the democrats deserve to lose because they betrayed me” mindset.
As if you need any additional evidence how .ml and their spinoffs are funded
That’s just self-indugent tribalist scapegoating using an argument which is circular and self-disproving.
- If there were too few people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to affect the vote, which is would justify the decision of the Democrat leadership to not do anything meaningful to agree with the demands of those voters (Biden pausing his own decision of sending 2000lb bombs is very much a “I’m saving you from myself” moment), then you can’t really blame those few people for the Democrat loss since there were not enought of them to make a difference and something else made the Democracts lose, so the fault is in the strategy followed by the Democrat leadership on other subjects.
- If on the other hand there were so many people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to result in the Democrats losing the vote, why did the Democrat candidates not go after that vote? Again, the blame is down to the choices of the Democrat leadership: it’s always easier to change what a handfull of people do than to change what millions do, so for the handful of people in the Democrat Party leadership to change their position with regards to supporting Israeli in its Genocide would be far more logical to expect in that scenario than for such a large slice of the electorate - millions of voters - to change their position instead. Even if one thinks “our leader’s position is more important than that of millions of people so it’s the millions who have to change their positions, not our leader” (a bootlicker’s mindset, BTW), it’s still incredibly stupid to go with “we’re going to convince millions to change their position rather than just that one guy” as a strategy so the blame still rests with those who chose to go with it.
All I see here and now is people making a pseudo-“argument” that is entirelly reliant on the axiom that “the boss is always right” to manage to somehow blame millions for something which the “the boss” could have (per the part of that very same pseudo-“argument” which claims it was the people who were against the Israeli Genocide that sawyed the vote) easilly avoided by just meaningufully changing his position on just that one subject. That presumption that the leaders are blameless and it’s the peons who are to blame for not being willing to follow the leaders no mater what they were doing, is a 100% subservient mindset.
If you’re going to assign blame for Trump, look at the handful of people in the Democrat Party who chose to do things in such a way that the results was that millions of their own electorate chose not to vote for them, thus delivering the election to Trump.
Wow, that’s surely going to both get the price of eggs down AND stop the genocide of Palestinians! How does he do it?
I mean there are two ways to stop the genocide. You can stop killing people or you can, how did he put it? “Finish the problem”
I can’t find the will to make a leopards/faces joke about this. This is exactly what we told people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because of “gEnOcIdE jOe” bullshit.
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide. They failed, but they tried. Now we’ve got an absolute monster in charge who is going to outright empower the genocide.
If you voted for Trump, voted for a third party, or refused to vote… FUCK YOU. You own this.
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide.
Okay I don’t have the energy to refute to this stuff anymore, so lemme just ask: Do you seriously believe the president of the united states, the single largest benefactor of Israeli regional hegemony, doesn’t have the ability to enforce its own laws and prevent violations of international law by its protectorate?
It’s a much, much more complicated situation than you’re presenting. Biden was trying to thread the needle between “deny Israel weaponry” (end result: Opportunistic invasion by Israel’s neighbors) and “give Netanyahu all the weapons he wants” (end result: what we’re about to see with these gigantic, city-block-destroying bombs).
How would you do it?
what we’re about to see with these gigantic, city-block-destroying bombs
About to see?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Its not complicated at all when multiple international human rights organizations credibly found Isreal was committing war crimes and the US already has a law preventing the sale of arms to nation’s credibly accused of war crimes. Biden was the cheif executive all he had to do was execute a law that was already on the books. Neither the SC nor Congress would have had any say.
Stop carrying water for genocide financiers who had every opportunity to do something different.
Oh, it’s the “but what about the Jews” argument. You do realize Israel’s whole problem with its neighbors is their treatment of Palestinians, right? If Israel can’t stop its apartheid and make real.peace with their neighbors then they deserve to get invaded. Their apartheid state isn’t worth more than the at least 200 thousand Palestinians who died in Israel’s genocide. I’ll also point out that Israel has the most advanced military in the region, so the idea that Israel can’t resist an invasion is wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
The previous government allowed this genocide to happen, the current government is making plans to keep it going. Perhaps you will now understand what people have in mind when they say that both parties are the same and to look for alternatives.
This is exactly what we told people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because of “gEnOcIdE jOe” bullshit.
What that things would continue on as they have been for well over a year now? Where is the “leopards ate my face” aspect of this?
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide. They failed, but they tried.
What efforts were those? Strongly worded phone calls and “red lines” that were constantly crossed and redrawn, while simultaneously standing alone in blocking UN and NATO resolutions against Israel?
who is going to outright empower the genocide.
Can you explain how a genocide that we’ve been actively supporting for the past 15 months is now being “empowered?”
The article is literally stating that Trump is giving the green light to giving Israel more powerful bombs to genocide with, and also to give Israeli West Bank occupiers their access to US financial resources again.
The occupiers are the state of Israel. Biden had some very limited sanctions against specific extremists who weren’t also Americans, but no one in their right mind thought that was somehow stopping the occupation.
He’s approving one shipment (Israel has been using 2000 pound bombs since October 7th and I haven’t heard anything about them stopping after that shipment was paused) and lifting sanctions on the four West Bank settlers Biden had sanctioned. This will only hurt Palestinians about as much as the original moves by Biden had helped them, which is to say: not at all.
We’ve already been giving them these bombs.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Can you explain how a genocide that we’ve been actively supporting for the past 15 months is now being “empowered?”
It’s right there in the headline. We’re sending 2,000lb bombs that weren’t being sent before.
Well that’s what happens when you rely on headlines and literal two sentence long “articles” for information because that’s completely false. We’ve been sending them thousands of these bombs along with the jets to use them for quite some time now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
This article is literally about one of Biden’s efforts to rein in the violence. He did try. Now go ahead and excuse Trump freeing up 2,000-pound bombs for Israel, and how that’s better for Palestine than it would be if Harris had won. Good luck.
He did not “try.” This is just a weak attempt at whitewashing recent history.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
“We tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” energy. It’s almost if Palestine was doomed either way. Heck of a lot cheaper to not send bombs to Israel
Okay, so even if Biden didn’t try what good did voting for Trump or not voting at all due for our country and or Israel?
Trump appears to have pushed Netanyahu to agree to a ceasefire, which Biden failed to do. I wouldn’t be surprised if the delivery of these bombs was part of the backroom deal between Trump and Netanyahu which led to the ceasefire.
I don’t know what will happen after this ceasefire expires, but until then it’s a little early for those who criticized Biden’s policy on Israel to criticize Trump’s.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the delivery of these bombs was part of the backroom deal between Trump and Netanyahu which led to the ceasefire.
I can’t deny that when seeing the news and timing my first thought was of Reagan and the Iran hostage crisis.
No it fucking isn’t, what with Israel set to receive 2,000 pound bombs that can level a city block.
Hehe. As planned. Thanks to people who refused to vote for Kamala. Leopards don’t see political parties, all faces taste the same.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Can you explain what’s changed?
What’s changed is all hope for cancelling weapons to Israel is gone. Kamala, while certainly not a great option, could at least be pressured.
You were foolish to have hope in the first place because if tens of thousands of innocent children getting blown into little pieces wasn’t enough to stop weapon sales, nothing is. Thinking that Harris “could be pressured” is just magical thinking because she, nor Biden, had any intention of stopping their aid to Israel to the point that they were willing to hand over control to the Republicans rather than even saying anything negative about Israel’s conduct and their participation in it.
A slightly bigger bomb won’t change anything materially on the ground in Gaza. The only significant change recently has been a cease fire. Whether it will hold or not is as yet unknown. But at least so far, Trump has somehow actually managed to be better on Gaza than Biden. Trump has shown a willingness to actually use the carrots and sticks of US foreign policy to produce outcomes. Biden offered unconditional support to Israel, while Trump seems to have forced them to come to the peace table by threatening to withhold support. In other words, Trump did what Biden’s base had been begging him to do for a year.
It’s possible all this falls apart. And it is possible that Trump will prove far worse, for example by allowing an annexation of the West Bank. But so far at least, Trump has actually been a lot better for the Palestinians than Biden. Biden and Harris fundamentally do not accept that Israel should ever be held accountable for anything.
I don’t think Trump did the cease fire out of moral concerns; I’m sure it was purely self-serving on his part. But he was actually willing to use the US’s various carrots and sticks to force through a cease fire agreement. That is something Biden never had the balls to do.
He sold the West Bank for 100m to Adelson. The genocide won’t stop their focus is just shifting temporarily. It’s not a win, Biden could’ve got them to agree on those terms too. Just like he could’ve ended the Ukraine war if he just told Ukraine to give up and concede a chunk of land.
Trump didn’t do anything. He has no control over Israel. He did nothing for this cease fire. I’m sure he would love to take credit one day and not the next.
[CITATION NEEDED]
He’s had people involved in backroom negotiations for months. Yes, it is a dirty tactic. This has a lot of undertones of Reagan’s deal with the Iranians. He didn’t have great intentions in negotiating a ceasefire, but he did manage to do it. And Trump has shown a willingness in the past to hold US military aid as a stick to change the behavior of allies. It’s reasonable to think he did the same thing here.
The US DOES have substantial control over Israel. Reagan for instance dramatically affected Israel’s behavior by withholding weapons. Biden was more permissive of Israel than Reagan was.
