I just read this point in a comment and wanted to bring it to the spotlight.
Meta has practically unlimited resources. They will make access to the fediverse fast with their top tier servers.
As per my understanding this will make small instances less desirable to the common user. And the effects will be:
- Meta can and will unethically defedrate from instances which are a theat to them. Which the majority of the population won’t care about, again making the small instances obsolete.
- When majority of the content is on the Meta servers they can and will provide fast access to it and unethically slow down access to the content from outside instances. This will be noticeable but cannot be proved, and in the end the common users just won’t care. They will use Threads because its faster.
This is just what i could think of, there are many more ways to be evil. Meta has the best engineers in the world who will figure out more discrete and impactful ways to harm the small instances.
Privacy: I know they can scrape data from the fediverse right now. That’s not a problem. The problem comes when they launch their own Android / iOS app and collect data about my search and what kind of Camel milk I like.
My thoughts: I think building our own userbase is better than federating with an evil corp. with unlimited resources and talent which they will use to destroy the federation just to get a few users.
I hope this post reaches the instance admins. The Cons outweigh the Pros in this case.
We couldn’t get the people to use Signal. This is our chance to make a change.
Currently Reddit has significantly more users than Lemmy. Has that stopped people from signing up to Lemmy? Twitter has has significantly more users than Mastodon since forever. Has that stopped people from signing up for Mastodon? Has it killed Mastodon?
The common error I see in all the “Threads will kill the Fediverse” mania is that it assumes the same people who sign up for Threads would have otherwise signed up for Mastodon/Lemmy/Kdin/etc. 99.9% of them probably never would have. They want something that’s easy and just works; and they’re willing to let a company profit off their data to have it.
EXACTLY! It only benefits us because it hugely increases the exposure of the fediverse to the outside world so people who ARE interested can merely jump over. It makes the fediverse more interesting for people like me who can “live” here and access the content I want.
two things:
have you considered that if this happens, once the fediverse’s exposure grows it will be thanks to Meta’s entrance, then the people that join the fediverse will do so by Meta’s means (in this case, Threads. But they can make some more after)? Making them the standard way to access the protocol, gradually making other communities less and less relevant.
It makes the fediverse more interesting for people like me who can “live” here and access the content I want.
I’m not trying to be rude by any means, but honestly, if the content you enjoy is on their platforms, just go there and enjoy it. You can be both there and here.
The exposure is still greater than the zero that currently exists. If only 1% see the stuff from the smaller instances and figure out what’s up, they’ll jump. That’s better than the current near 0. There’s not really a scenario where it reduces the activity here any further, only improves it.
I don’t think those are good comparisons. The point he is trying to make is that when a user joins Lemmy and sees a two gaming subs, one on Lemmy.world and the other on a meta instance with more subscribers, that user will join the meta sub.
I do not want to see only corporations holding the keys to the majority of communities and if they are allowed in that will be their goal. Meta doesn’t give a shit if the 3dprinting sub has quality content, only that it is profitable for them. Corporations will choose profit over the users every time.
People will say “well if it gets bad or they start becoming bad actors then we can drop them” but that will just set us back to where we are right now. I would rather see us grow slow without corporations than fast with them.
That’s not what’s going to happen. I really don’t understand why people on Lemmy are so fussed about this, Meta are not building a lemmy instance, they are building a twitter clone. While yes you can access Threads content through Lemmy that doesn’t mean it’s going to affect the Lemmy ecosystem. Mastodon is going to be way more affected than Lemmy ever will be.
Just because they are on the Fediverse doesn’t mean it will make sense to use their services through all other Fediverse platforms and vice versa. Following an entire Lemmy “sub” on threads will be a shitty experience and Threads doesn’t have creation of subs as an option, the only viable equivalent features are user posts.
The problem is that this doesn’t change the outcome.
To use your example, if we federate people will join the meta instance, if we don’t federate people won’t even know the lemmy.world instance exists, and even if they do they would still join the meta one if it’s bigger.
I totally agree with the sentiment, but I yet have to understand how not federating can change the outcome
The only way smaller instances can thrive and make a strong federation is by making the average person start to care more about privacy.
But you can’t do that if you can’t reach them in the first place
It’s about threads becoming the fediverse by virtue of their size and resources, and then making changes to the protocols which ultimately lock out the actual fediverse. It will be ‘fediverse, by Meta’ where everything is hosted and run by meta.
And how do you think defederating them will affect that at all?
They can just use their influence and say “here, W3C, add this and that to the protocol”.
How will a small mastodon server with a few thousand users stop that? Defederating them is useless.
Not totally sure, but I don’t think that negotiating with Threads on anything at any point is a winning strategy. They’ll win every time. Kind of a ‘give them an inch they take a mile’ situation in my head.
At least by staying separate the user base will have to make a conscious decision about where they want to spend time instead of letting Meta dictate that for them in the future.
It is harmful either way. Not a great situation for fediverse. I wouldn’t say defed is useless, it clearly does something. Effective? Not sure.
I seriously don’t understand this mindset! If meta manages to make a better product it will definitely have more users, it’s just how everything works!
Users will have the option to pick between convince of meta or freedom of smaller instances. Who are we to decide for everyone?
For real, freaking out about defederating so early is going to become a real problem if we do it every time someone new moves in.
Also do people really want Twitter to remain the only mainstream option for microblogging? Mastodon is great, but more competitors is only a good thing.
Meta and other big for profit players in social media have a bad history. Privacy, ads, profits at all cost. The people concerned about this early on are basing it off the previous behaviors of these companies.
I feel like it’s a good and early immune response.
If it’s not technically possible for them to show me ads, see my ip, private messages etc how is this harmful?
I’m thinking in terms of the future.They’ll have profit incentives to find ways acquire whatever data they can profit from. While they may not be able to do certain things now, companies like this chip away bit by bit in the long term.
With their incentives, resources, and prior behavior, I’m not certain what they can add would be worth whatever the positive result of their profit making activity.
Edits: spelling.
I assume people who use the fediverse cares in some way about federation, do they not?
It’s like going to a community yard sale, except Amazon shows up and starts doing sales with massive discounts. They’re Amazon, they’re definitely going to be better at pretty much anything, and as the clearly “better” seller, everyone’s going there. It’s not like it’s illegal or anything, users might even get to buy better stuff. But it’s not really that much of a yard sale anymore is it? And the work of the people who developed the community just goes to serve Amazon. What’s the point of keeping amazon in the yard sale anyway, they’re more than capable of maintaining a storefront of their own. People who want to shop at Amazon can just walk through the front door of amazon fresh, it’ll always be there. The yard sale maintains it’s character and culture by not expecting it’s smaller sellers to compete with a behemoth.
I understand your view but no, not everyone here cares about fediverse, honestly this technicalities should be abstracted for the end user. Not everyone is a nerd or have time or passion to care about fediverse, should we abandon them just because we dont like meta? No we should create a platform just as fun and easy to use as centralized platforms with better privacy and no ads.
If we keep doing this very few people will use fediverse just like what happend to matrix and others
A free, open-source, privacy-conscious, human-moderated platform with great usability and easily accessible sounds beautiful. Also, sounds decades away and probably utopic, given the amount of time and resources needed to make all that possible. And when you start focusing on just getting funding to keep growing, well, you end up being Meta.
I really really hope I’m proven wrong as soon as possible
Apt username, Problematic Consumer.
Meta is cancer. You don’t let cancer grow and see if it ends up maybe causing issues or killing you. You cut every trace of it out as soon as it’s detected.
Meta has never done anything to show it is a corporation that acts in good faith. In fact it has proven time and time again it is actively acting in bad faith, against people, community, and privacy interests in order to drive profit with no regard for anything else.
Kill the cancer before it kills you.
What a huge piece of FUD this is. Threads is already way larger then the Fediverse is. They don’t need to come here and try and take users. You are afraid that Meta will hoard the content and users from the Fediverse but they are already doing that. Threads doesn’t connect now so it’s all there’s. Why would they connect to just disconnect later? Why is the answer to being afraid of getting disconnected in the future to never connect? This makes no sense. It’s complete fear mongering.
They don’t need to come here and try and take users
Exactly, they don’t need to, yet they plan to. What do you think their goal is?
There goal is to not look like a monopoly to the government and have to deal with anti-trust issues. This lets them hide behind them being “open” and not forcing people to use Meta apps to access the network.
@SUPERcrazy3530 @peppy Completely agree. If they disconnect later we are just back where we are now - so literally no loss. Only win by connecting
Honestly, I still have more hope for Signal compared to Lemmy/fediverse. As much as I like it here, Signal is just so much more user-friendly and explainable. I am also slowly making people around me set it up.
Sure, but Signal is more of just a replacement for WhatsApp and the likes. It can’t be compared to this type of platform really.
Are you talking about Signal the private messaging service? I’m waaay out of the loop. Would appreciate a TL;DR or a ELI5.
This post feels like fearmongering…
Why would Meta care about small instances? I feel like Meta would only see the big instances as pontential threat.
Honestly, this could actually be an opportunity for fediverse. I don’t want Meta to harvest my data, so I would never make an account there. However I am interested in content/people from Meta and I can follow that from fediverse. I believe there is large group of people who think the same way and they may join fediverse if they haven’t already done that.
I don’t want Meta to harvest my data, so I would never make an account there
The nature of federation means that you don’t have to make an account there for them to harvest your data. They probably do it already.
The nature of federation means that you don’t have to make an account there for them to harvest your data. They probably do it already.
They can do that without Threads though. Everything you upvote, downvote, and comment on is public record. Plus the way federated content works is the host server isn’t accessed unless you actively try to go there, everything else is reposted in your local instance. So they’re not going to get data from Threads that way.
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times: they don’t care about the Fediverse one way or another. This is just a way to kill Twitter, and they’re doing it through a loose alliance of sorts.
That’s exactly what I meant, they don’t need Threads, it’s all public (except possibly email addresses?) , but @bighi@lemmy.world commented to me and said it doesn’t work that way, so now I’m secend guessing myself.
Either way, they can scoop all that post data up anyway, to me the data is almost becoming a red herring. IMHO, Facebook’s history of being a platform of hate-fueled content, violence, trolling, social manipulation, etc. is of greater concern.
I’m also wary of the day that Facebook is the driving force of the Fediverse due to it’s sheer size. All those users come along with a great deal of inertia, and Facebook could end up being the mega-Corp who decides all the protocol standards forcing others to keep up with their “contributions” or get left behind.
Small correction, I don’t want them to harvest data that is connected to me as a person. With Meta I have to give out many personal info that they don’t actually need for their service to function. It’s just a way for making more money.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only personal info on Fediverse I have to give is my email.
