SO. MUCH. THIS.
Consumers however are at the heart of an unhealthy culture of frequent device upgrades
Yes, blame it on the consumer and not on the companies that spend an incredible amount of money to first hire marketeers that think all day long of the best way to push ‘new’ products, and then run costly campaigns to spread the word.
Gotta be honest. Yes blame us. It takes two to tango.
At one point in my life there was this anti consumer movement culturally that got absolutely destroyed and buried. Maybe we’re all just sheep without any free will controlled by Steve jobs of the world. But I feel like we refused to keep certain fires lit and now we’re all freezing. That’s our fault.
Most of it was super obvious too. When ads started invading, some people were pissed. But there was always way more people saying ‘who cares’. But things like ads fuel this consumerism to get people buying and idolizing the tech channels or kardashian lifestyle with all the bling and flash of new. Now we have a generation who probably think anti consumption lifestyle is just flat out crazy talk. Like how do we not have any counter culture anymore to the lavish consumerism culture. Almost every culture has an opposition but that one seems like it’s non existant in a world consumed by ads products
I think what people are missing here is that although a new phone comes out every year, not every consumer is on the same upgrade schedule.
If I keep my phone for five years then that’s four phones in not getting.
While I agree with you and work on the same timetable I think their point still very much stands.
Look at cars, for example. A model is defined by it’s generation with each model year generally only having small upgrades, if any. With much of our lives if we were to wait that long we’d not miss one generation but instead feel five or more generations behind the curve.
There’s so little of a need for a new phone every year that Apple now sells the iPhone 13, 14, and SE on top of whatever generation is current because they know that the newest tech is just not worth it anymore. Samsung does exactly the same thing and no amount of high-horse whining from Android users will change the fact that those companies are just as bad about it.
We love to throw functional shit in the bin. We love to have overpowered stuff on the off-chance we might need it one day every couple years and we’re too pathetic to either just deal with it or to simply borrow/rent a better thing for that one instance(90% of truck and SUV drivers can absolutely go fuck themselves).
How many people are actually getting a new phone every year? I don’t think I’m poor but maybe I am? Everyone I know keeps their phones for at least a few years and then replaces them when they are no longer functional.
Still. Every 3 years feels like too often, but that’s around the time things stop working - likely due to planned obsolescence and updates designed to make older phones work worse.
Should we really blame the consumer for replacing something the manufacturer designed to break after a short time? What’s something else you pay $1500+ for that is useless 3 years later?
I know a few folks who do, but most of them have a hand-me-down cycle they follow. I get a new phone every 2-3 years and hand the old phone down to a friend or family member with something older.
I’m not saying consumers are not to blame, but i have objections against the phrasing; as if it’s primarily blaming consumers. I myself am not quite a minimalist, but do have strong tendencies in that direction. So, i never cared about fashion, or buying the newest gadgets. And i know there are people who are the complete opposite. However, i do feel that companies fuel the greed of consumers big time.
While consumers need to educate themselves/be educated by their caretakers and schools, i feel the heart of the matter is the marketing culture and the tendency of companies of hiding shady practices, like profiting from child slaves who have to mine precious metals, or women slaving away in factories for long hours, while risking their lives and bodies due to unsafe machinery, buildings and being bullied by their employees employers, for a shamefully low salary.
Edit to replace the word employees
Yeah I think it’s very strongly both. I manage to resist consumption quite frequently and prefer to fix stuff up when I can. But also I’m not immune to propaganda.
The systems at play require us to mindlessly consume. When a significant portion of people took to repairing our stuff they blocked us from doing it. They promoted these ideas and did their best so that both culture and counterculture were ones of consumption. Hell they promoted the idea of bundling phone purchasing into your phone contract so it became an every 2 year upgrade. I wound up being the weird one for not since I buy my phone outright when the old one doesn’t work anymore. Fuck, I’ve had to argue with internet providers’ sales people that I own my own equipment and only want what I want, and sometimes they ignore my demands and throw such things in anyways. And they start in on it when you’re a kid.
But we keep doing it. The fact is these nice things are nice. Upgrading feels good. And when it’s easier to upgrade than to not it can take dedication to consume less. They set this culture up, but we perpetuate it. New is nice. Better is nice. We like these things. It’s a hell of a lot easier to show off a new phone than to brag about refurbishing yours. Just consume and dispose.
I think along this line of reasoning when it comes to evaluating myself. It’s how I keep myself in check and “sharpen” myself as a person. I like to remind myself of how often I fall short of it though. I also like to remind myself of the things that I have going for me that others might not have had.
When I play the more charitable viewpoint of other people’s life experiences out in my head, it’s usually pretty easy to see them getting where they are. There’s a lot of suffering in this world, and large, effectively international companies are finding ways to exacerbate that in order to keep their businesses growing. It’s nice to sit down after a long day and veg out to short little videos, where each gives you a little chuckle or smile. It’s not that hard to get caught in the trap.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I agree completely that the path we’re going down is concerning and scary, and individuals can absolutely put the work in to make their lives better and elevate above the mainstream, but for any given person, that can be very difficult for any multitude of reasons, and we can’t forget compassion for them.
I don’t think there were ever that many of us who read Adbusters every month, but it’s likely even fewer now.
I think that reality TV and social media influencers have had as much to do with people embracing conspicuous consumption as a culture as much as advertisers have.
Why am I suddenly seeing so much discussion about capitalism these days? This is way above the usual background level of how often this topic gets brought up in various circumstances.
I don’t really like this trend of absolving consumers of literally all agency in how they spend their money. Outside of practices that intentionally try to make older products obsolete like purposeful throttling - which should absolutely be shamed and made illegal - no one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to buy the new phone or else. If someone decides that a product is a worthy use of their money and decides to purchase it, then so be it. People aren’t children and can decide how they’d like to spend their money, and I really don’t see what’s wrong with a company trying to convince you to do so. People can make their own choices, and that includes financially poor ones. They can also choose to prioritize different things than you or I might.
Ultimately, if you don’t want to buy a new phone, don’t. They’re really quite good nowadays and tend to last a while. There will of course continue to be shiny new things, and if having the newest thing is truly important to you, you can decide to spend your money on it. Or, you can also not. But to say that consumers have essentially no choice and are simply the poor victims of marketing with no real agency at all is reductive to the point of being almost patronizing.
Consumers have very little choice when it comes to things like cars, electricity company, cable company, etc. In that case it is appropriate to put blame on the companies who have a captive customer base. But with other products like phones, there is nothing compelling consumers to buy the latest except FOMO and greed.
Absolutely, and for products and markets that are essentially necessary to life, there’s a much stronger case to be made for strong regulation since the potential for exploitation is much higher (the nightmare that is the entire healthcare industry exemplifies this perfectly, since market forces don’t work well when you’re unconscious or will otherwise die).
But for luxury items, which high-end smartphones undoubtedly are? Yeah, consumers can take a little bit of accountability.
Ultimately, if you don’t want to buy a new phone, don’t.
Could you have made a more vacuous comment? Obviously people shouldn’t buy every new toy that comes out, that doesn’t change the fact that 90% of the blame—and 90% is a hard floor—belongs to the people who waste the Earth’s resources pinching it off in the first place and then waste even more in protectionism and generally making sure there are as few viable alternatives as possible.
Whelp, your point can still be made without the first sentence. The fediverse has this reputation of being unfriendly which push newcomers away, so we’ll have to do something about it ourselves. Something as simple as not being snarky unless it’s absolutely necessary would help the fediverse community a lot. Cool template btw, I’m going to save for later.
The fundamental truth is that companies would not make a bunch of new phones if there were not people that wanted to buy them, for one reason or another.
And it’s not as if the smartphone market isn’t littered with failed products and ideas. Marketing can do a lot, but it’s not able to generate demand for a product that consumers simply do not want. You might remember the pushes for 3D displays, WiMAX, modular phones, styluses, the recent push for foldable devices, etc etc. These failed because consumers simply did not want them. Motorola, HTC, LG, etc failed because consumer did not want their products and they were generally inferior.
Again, you do not need to buy a new phone every year. There are people who do voluntarily want to do that though, and so companies will provide products to meet that desire. I simply do not understand this compulsion to insert yourself into a blatantly voluntary transaction, with the customer wanting a new phone, the company providing one, and you stating “Actually, you’re being exploited.”
This meme comes to mind.
I always say this. You’re one person. Facebook was once a trillion dollar company that hired teams of engineers, phds, and marketers to device the most abusive ways to keep your attention. There are literal studies showing how insta promotes depression in young girls and yet they’re still allowed to operate.
Social media’s marketing schemes are the new generations tobacco industry.
Though i agree with you, i never feel like ‘i’m only one person’. For instance, if someone turns off the lights and recycles their trash, they often say; how does it help, i’m only one person after all. But there are so many people thinking the exact same thing and together we can help change the world.
So, yes, companies should be changed and i think this is also about politics and economics, which are usually conservative and greedy. But i never feel like the things i do are in vain; i’m standing with perhaps millions of invisible people who care about the environment and try to do their best and who all might be thinking; i’m only one person. Many people do want to change and try their best, but it’s time that all these conglomerates are being forced to change for real, instead of getting subsidized, and just greenwash their products.
blame it on the consumer
Yeah. Blame it on the consumers indeed. Are you a adult or not? Put the tendies down and put your big boy pants on and realize that you need to take responsibility for at least some of your actions.
Same goes for all those dopes that pre-order every game that gets released and then we all wonder why the industry releases so many unfinished games that need patches and updates. That’s because consumers are rewarding these game developers for releasing shitty software.
Reduce. Repair. Recycle.
Most phones, break this at every step.
A big part of it is built in batteries that are difficult to replace. My phone has a removable battery and is on its third one now… still works fine and does everything I want it to, after 10 years of use.
Edit: It’s running Lineage Os 18 (android 11) not the original android 5(?) it came with, so security updates are not an issue.
It’s honorable that you struggle through 2013 Android, but using an internet enabled device that hasn’t received security updates in at least 7 years is a horrible idea.
Upgrade to a Fairphone at least, so you can keep replacing parts while also maintaining a base level of security.
He could be using a ROM with up to date security patches, I believe some phones from that era still have active custom ROM communities.
Wish I had heard of fairphone before I bought a pixel. I have to decline Google assistant popups every fucking day
This 100% since my screen has a small crack in the corner, I need a new screen just to get to the battery.
Because of this they want me to leave my phone with them for up to 30 days while they order the parts. It’s an iPhone XR. How can they not have parts?
I know it’s because apple makes it difficult on purpose.
Also there are not Apple Store in the country where I live, so I have to go through an authorized provider.
I’ll get a 15, but then I’m taking this phone to an unofficial repair shop to get it fixed up for cheap.
Gonna take a couple guesses here.
- Given that they’re upgrading from a 5 year old phone (that wasn’t the flagship when it was released) that’s still getting iOS updates and that no Android phone has historically had a similar guaranteed amount of support (and currently only the Pixel 8 is rumored to offer more) they might want to be able to keep their next phone for 5+ years.
- Third party iOS apps are still generally better than third party Android apps and they might value the improved experience.
- They might not want to deal with manufacturer installed bloatware.
- They might otherwise be invested in the Apple ecosystem - AirPods, Apple Watch, MacBook, etc.
- They might want updates ASAP (instead of getting it months or weeks later).
- They might not want to think so hard about which Android phone to buy.
- They likely don’t value the advantages Android has over iOS (more customizable, earlier features, actual file system browsing, etc.) as highly as the advantages iOS has.
- They might not want to learn a new mobile OS, and they might value the consistency and simplicity of iOS.
There are a few reasons like their extended software support and their built in text recognition and translation features.
I don’t live in my home country and this is very very useful.
Since everyone in America uses iOS and iMessage only, I’m kinda locked into iMessage for communications.
I know there are other messaging apps, but no one has any of them. There are people I communicate with just a few times a year and I can’t ask them to download an app just to occasionally chat or catch up.
I also use very few google services. In fact if you don’t count invidious I only have a gmail account which I use for no personal stuff like Netflix accounts and stuff.
Ok but first manufacturers must “rethink” planned obsolescence and right to repair
Planned obsolescense is a myth. It’s just cost-benefit that makes old tech crappy. Tech keeps getting better, and supporting the old device is a pain for no extra money. And phone architecture is stupid so they need every single part supplier to provide updates if they want to update the OS, unlike PCs where the hardware is better-abstracted.
You’re either a troll or an uninformed idiot who has never done operating system development. A properly modularised OS can allow for minimal upkeep for older hardware. A leading example is Apple’s .kext system allowing for near 10 years of OS support both on macOS and iOS. Not that I think Apple is a great company but they do have some really good software development practices.
Also regardless of the technical explanination above, accepting a constant flow of e-waste for the sake of a new shiny year is just unethical regardless of the supposed reason.
Sir, you can prove someone wrong without insults. You need to chill a bit.
I actually did do operating system development, at least back in school. But comparing Apple to everybody else is insane when Apple controls the full vertical stack of end to end hardware. You may as well compare them to the driver support on Nintendo or Toyota.
And also there’s the problem that the Android OS is based on Linux which handles the “wierd new hardware” problem by recompiling the kernel, which doesn’t work so well with closed-source binary drivers. And that’s before even getting into the ARM architecture.
it’s not just phones or devices that need updates, though. None of my refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers have ever lasted more than 10 years; I think the average is about 5 years before they stop working, get all rusty or a very expensive piece breaks so they are not worth repairing. Meanwhile all of my granma’s old kitchen appliances are still working perfectly after 60+ years of service.
Sure, it might be just that over-optimizing their production so they are more performant while being cheaper to make is also making them less durable, but I don’t see a lot of motivation from companies to go out of their way to build durable things either. And it’s not that I think Corporate = Bad; as you say it’s a cost/benefit thing, it’s just that the “benefit” companies try to maximize is their shareholders’, not our planet’s. It’s on Politics to create a legal framework where some of the cost to our planet is shared with companies (so they have incentives to make things durable/repairable again) and on us consumer to choose wisely what to buy, when and from whom.
maybe it’s my personality or i’m old but i keep my things (including tech) until they become unusable. i’ve never thought about upgrading my phone every couple of years. i kept my last phone for 6 years (it became a brick), my current phone is from 2018.
Me too. My phone is 10 years old, my microwave is 40 yrs old, my car is 24, my home theater amp is 25.
I take pride in taking care of my stuff and making it last as long as possible. It’s something I got from my grandmother who wouldn’t let anything go to waste. (She was a refugee from ww2, so she knew a thing or two about making things last and making due.) Obviously not everything can last that long, but if you get good quality things chances are it’ll be around a lot longer than if you just buy cheap or flashy stuff.
In the era when everyone seem to be taking out expensive contracts for new phones every year I have had just 4 smart phones in the past 20 ish years. They all reach the stage where they are just too slow for modern apps but I think we might finally be in the stage where compute power progress has slowed that the current phone might get an open source Lineage et el on it for a decent period of time with multiple battery swaps.
Me too. my phone is from 2017 and I’m fine with it. It’s part of your personality, to preserve things. Associating personality traits to being “old” or to any stigmatized aspect in our society is a dirty trick to manipulate people (in this case, used to force people into consumerism). Just be yourself, and don’t feel bad about it.
Legalize Right To Repair Ban Planned Obsolescence
Boom, solved the problem. But once again it’s easier to shame Joe Q. Public than hold the real criminals accountable.
Won’t solve the problem of people spending 1000+ dollars a year on the latest and newest because they need it as a status symbol to fill the vacuous hole where a personality would be.
and I’d wager more people are buying new phones every year for that reason, than due to forced obsolescence.
Isnt gonna solve the problem entirely but will make a huge difference. Cant say anything about the iphone craze in US but at least here most change their mobile only when issues pop up and repairs get too expensive or impossible.
Ban glue in non-waterproof electronics. I remember when I didn’t need to risk destroying a device with a heat-gun to open it up and repair it like 10 years ago, but y’know, everything needed to be thinner.
Thats one thing that boggles me… I’ve never heard a single person go “Y’know, this phone is nice…but I wish it was thinner and more fragile”.
I’m convinced they just want to make phones thinner, and push screens further to the edge (or in the case of Galaxy, around the edge and down the side) just to make them more likely to break when dropped.
You’re on Lemmy. That means you’re probably not a “form over function” shopper, y’know?
I get where you’re coming from, and maybe I was just lucky, but holy hell my note 10+ was a TANK despite the reach around screen. Miss that phone already, I got talked into swapping when I moved and had to change Internet not long ago. A month after having my pixel 7 pro, and one fall from the edge of my desk onto the carpet, and the bottom half of the screen shits itself lol
In waterproof ones too. It isn’t hard to make use of stainless steel screws and a simple O-Ring (see computer waterblocks).
Reminder that industrial handheld computers, despite being way more water and everything else resistant than an iPhone will ever be, and whose environmental resistance is absolutely critical to their function and not just a marketing bullet point, are also repairable and upgradable. They work for decades with periodic maintainance which is actually why heavy industry seems so “behind the times” on upgrading their equipment, they simply don’t have to because their existing gear is so resilient.
