I really hate that Windows does this. Which is why when I decide to switch a machine to Linux it’s the only OS allowed to boot to bare metal. Windows can go in a VM and suck it.
Not sure why, but your comment made me think about the first machine I switched to Linux. It was a laptop who’s fan eventually had a bad bearing and needed to be replaced. Luckily it was still under warranty, so I sent the laptop in to get the fan replaced, and received my laptop back with Windows installed on it… I was so livid.
Never send them the drive.
They are probably required to boot to the desktop for qa
Yup, exactly what they said. But I didn’t know any better at the time. These days I would just fix that myself rather than send it to them
I want to do this so bad but gaming always stops me. Some anticheat refuses to let you play in a vm
What’s actually happening here is Windows is setting its bootloader first in your EFI when it gets updated. Linux isn’t gone, you just have to press the “boot another drive” button and boot to it, or go into your EFI setup and switch the bootloader back to the Linux one.
Linuxes do the same thing when updating their bootloader.
Note for the Ackshually crowd: If you’re still booting MBR (which comes with the partition eating risk on dual boots) you have a system that is older than Windows 8 - 11+ years old, so eating the MBR is something you’ll have to deal with unconventionally, as all modern systems, OS, and hardware expect you to be using EFI.
Grub does not do the same thing unless something has gone wrong. It detects windows and offers you the choice on boot as to which OS to start.
Grub is still the first bootloader in that case. You would not notice if it was putting itself first after an update unless you have Windows booting first.
You might notice if you are booting between multiple linuxes, all with their own version of grub.
Again, unless something has gone wrong, the grub config should auto-detect the other Linux distros installed and add them to the boot menu. It should look like this:
EDIT: Also, what can happen is that the grub timeout (the time that menu is on screen) is set to 0 seconds. You can get the grub menu to stay up by holding left shift during boot if that’s the case.
Not the case. What’s happening here is Windows is removing the ext4 partition completely, expanding the ntfs partition and writing to all of it.
Windows update did that to my <1 year old laptop. I figured it had just wiped out grub, but when it was booted from a live-usb there was no ext4 partition there at all. This has been reported many times.
Microsoft should be sued for this shit. Legal protection from destroying people’s data that is not part of Windows or in a Windows partition, whether deliberately or by negligence, is not something that can be legitimately covered by a license agreement.
Second that. I can’t think of a way that that is not deliberate. The “cover” would be that it is ensuring that the full device is used so that the end user doesn’t have to worry about it. In reality, there’s no legitimate reason for an update to touch the partition table. Way to easy to brick the system.
In my experience (W11 + Fedora on UEFI Thinkpad), I’ve seen it actually get rid of the Fedora entry from the UEFI boot list. Reinstalling GRUB from chroot didn’t fix it, so I used EasyUEFI and manually added the Fedora EFI file to the boot list and that worked.
So it wasn’t simply changing the boot order, it actually nuked Fedora from the UEFI boot list.
It sometimes destroys the Linux boot sector too. But it’s simple enough to chroot with a live usb and repair it. I don’t even have both OS as an option. Mine boots straight into Linux unless I interrupt it and use the boot another drive option. Linux and Windows have their own separate boot sectors, but Windows will fubar the Linux sector randomly.
But this is Lemmy Linux memes where they tell lies or use half truths about other OS’s and laugh about it rather than making actual clever memes! Get outta here with that sense!!
And where they ridicule Windows users because they’re “not good enough at computers to use Linux” yet they keep pointing out all the ways they themselves aren’t able to use Windows 🤔
That’s actually one of my biggest complaints about Linux users tbh. Sure, Linux is great. But half of the “windows doesn’t let you do [X]” complaints are really just “I couldn’t figure out how to do [X] and couldn’t be bothered to google it” in disguise.
When my dad died he left behind a handful of laptops and computers around the house, all running Linux.
My mother has to call me for help with setting up her TV, she wasn’t about to learn Linux. I managed to get any critical files off and we installed Windows. For all of it’s faults, it’s certainly a hell of a lot easier to use.
When I had a computer dual booting Windows and Linux, I maybe booted up Linux three or four times over the years I had it. It honestly just created a headache when that machine crapped out because half the files I wanted were damn near impossible to recover. Those on the Linux side. Now you could say if I had installed Linux and tried to recover them it would have been no problem and you would have been right, but running Linux is a headache in and of itself. I can acknowledge that it’s a better operating system, but not from a usability or access to software standpoint. Even if both of those areas are improving, windows still wins in both.
The thing that’s really devious here is that I can even see how someone might think that replacing the boot loader is easier. When I think of someone like my mom who could still do fine with punch cards but struggled by vista a boot loader would be unnecessarily complex. And the great irony is that google showed that linux could have options perfect for users like her. Chromeos is exactly what her use case was.
Counterpoint. I used to get constant tech support calls from both of my parents until i switched them both to Linux. Now if i get a call from either of them more than twice a year it’s an oddity, and that is usually to install new hardware like a printer which they couldn’t install on windows either.
How often are their systems updated? How often are you remoting in and solving a problem before it arises?
“I don’t want to learn something new, therefore Windows is better.”
Wouldn’t that have been easier to type than all that filler?
If you’d actually read it, you’d see that I’m not a stranger to Linux. Being familiar with it doesn’t fix how unintuitive and unsupported it is.
That’s fair though I’m on my second attempt to switch. The first was several years ago and I did the dual boot and never actually use linux thing. This time I only boot up windows for things I wouldn’t have a problem with if I was running a Debian instead of arch based distro
Windows is still easier but it’s not just that linux is catching up. Windows is getting worse and harder to use. I still use it at work and every update I dislike it more.
The really Insidious part of Windows getting worse is that since they are the defacto desktop operating system, people get used to the terrible way things are done, and get confused when another OS does it differently. It’s so frustrating, because your end up with threads like this as a result… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dual booting < having two separate SSD’s
Not really if you have a bootloader like refind it will look for other EFIs and list them. Makes for a really clean set up
If you don’t want to bother with the bootloader like the other comment mentioned you can also just use the boot menu from the motherboard instead. You gotta mash f11 (or whatever it is on your motherboard) on boot when you want to go into Windows, but if you only need it every once in a while it is good enough.
Never happened to me. Like ever. And I’ve been on Linux (with occasional dual-booting whenever I’m in a position where I need windows–) for like 15 years now?
To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.
My guess: the windows update fucked up Grub. Happened to me once or twice in 20 years of dual booting. It is also easily recoverable.
It tends to happen if you are not using the windows bootloader (GRUB for example) but if you use the windows bootloader it should be fine
With EFI systems this doesn’t matter. It was an issue with the legacy BIOS bootloader systems about a decade ago though.
I don’t remember if Windows updates would cause it but installing Windows second definitely would. Likewise, I think upgrading (from say Windows 7 to 10) might. Basically Windows is just like “this MBR? It’s actually mine, thanks.” With no option to not erase it.
In fact old BIOS systems are more resilient. With a separate bootload on another disk, starting from that disk and then chainloading Windows (on another disk) or Linux works very stable as Windows is not trying to change the boot order of BIOS.
But Windows likes to also meddle with UEFI. Even with separate disks each with their own ESP it likes to change you EFI settings to make windows the default again instead of the boot menu on another disk (everything on the same EFI is even worse, because then Windows can access and delete everything now Windows and you have to restore the boot loader/menu).
Same. Never happened to me either. But I usually make a sperate UEFI partition for Linux instead of relying on grub.
That is true for me now, but for years I used dual boot on old BIOS based systems so idk /shrug
That’s actually more safe. Windows can rewrite the UEFI setting to make itself the default again (although that’s of course easy to fix). But it can’t change your BIOS boot order.
To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.
Considering the people who seem to have issues are the ones who go out of their way to be all “Linux good/Microsoft bad” I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume most of it is total bullshit.
I’ve built half a dozen PC’s running windows 10 from scratch and not a single one of them has gotten messed up during the incredibly straightforward install/update process. It’s so dumb simple compared to virtually anything else I just don’t get how you could even have problems.
Listening to Windows problems on here from Linux users (I use both btw just to avoid the inevitable pedantry) is like watching a toddler throw a fit because he found out you have to peel a banana before you eat it, but their favorite fruit is an orange.
Considering the people who seem to have issues are the ones who go out of their way to be all “Linux good/Microsoft bad” I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume most of it is total bullshit.
Considering a simple google search of these terms brings up multiple people whose position on Linux and Microsoft is completely unknown to anyone else but themselves, having the exact problem OP is posting about, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and assume you’ve attached your identity to Microsoft and have to defend them for some reason.
I’ve been using Computers for nearly 30 years, and Windows has come a LONG way in that time. But lets not pretend windows doesn’t shit the bed sometimes. Hell a simple google search will reveal articles like this one and a large number of results of peoples PC’s having issues after windows update. Youtubers have made videos on windows update issues.
I had one of my PC’s straight up boot loop after a routine windows update and had to use a recovery to fix it, only for windows to auto update and re boot loop itself immediately afterwards. Most of the time, windows updates are fine, but sometimes they fuck shit up.
See your argument might hold water if “stuff people talk about” were something applicable only to Windows/Linux fights. (Windows can lick my fuzzy horse ass, btw—)
But like. People love to meme on how SystemD makes your computer hang up for a long while when shutting down? Never saw it happen. People meme on PulseAudio breaking? Never happened to me. Shit like that.
