Fun fact: nearly 40% of all foodborne illnesses were caused by raw milk consumption. Pasteurization has reduced that number down to less than 1%, except in places where raw milk consumption is still allowed.
Been only buying organic milk for 10+ years now out of preference, it stays fresh for much longer than normal milk. This is because USDA Organic milk is ultra-pasteurized in almost the same way as shelf-stable milk.
I searched and found this article and they reported that there’s virtually no difference in nutrients between the options:
https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/is-ultra-pasteurized-milk-bad/
So if all the nutrients are the same, the only difference in less pasteurization is more bacteria. Fuck that!
I think it definitely affects the taste though doesn’t it? I prefer the organic ones that are vat pasteurized due to that reason, ultra feels sweeter to me.
Under certain conditions, and it still poses a risk as the proper labeling of it suggests.
The NLH has some literature on the unnecessary amount of people that are made sick, and some that have died as a result of consuming raw milk.
If you want to believe it’s harmless, and consume it despite warnings, you are free to do so. But I can’t in good conscience allow you to misinform people without due diligence. Now everyone can weigh the risks after having been given both sides of the argument.
Let them. Darwin wins.
Unfortunately it’s not that simple. Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread. It’s never the risk-accepters that suffer most. It’s always the sick, the poor, the very young and the very old, and the healthcare workers who suffer. The people who refused to get vaccines or take even basic precautions with COVID killed a lot of people, while the vast majority of those assholes survived.
Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread.
Every single person that contracts the HPAI H5N1 virus is a few billion chances for the virus to mutate and generate a strain that is able to spread from person to person. These people are throwing dice over and over and when they come up snake eyes, we are all going to lose.
A coworker of mine (African American) lost three cousins to COVID. Minorities are less likely to have good healthcare or the resources to pay out of pocket when necessary. I’m mostly on team Darwin too but I agree it’s not just the idiots that will get hurt. The way things are going schools might even start teaching that raw milk isn’t that harmful.
Can anyone explain to me why conservatives love raw milk so much? Is it like more profitable or something? Why the hell does this keep coming up?
Science-denying anti-intellectualism mixed with “you can’t tell me what to do!”
Exactly. And we should exploit that by telling them it’s not safe to consume Arsenic or lick a lead bar multiple times a day, every day. They’ll be like, “oh yeah! watch me lib tard!”. And the population will shrink. :)
How about a glass of Hemlock juice? All those intellectuals and “city doctors” will try to get you away from that stuff, so it must be good!
Hey, it turns out that lead acetate is a natural, calorie-free, sweetener! In fact, the ancient Romans used it. The FDA doesn’t want you to use this because they’re in bed with Big Sugar and the Splenda people.
As far as I can tell: It’s partially the same shit as the anti vaccine mixed with being angry about government regulations.
A lot of the anecdotes I’ve heard about raw.milk being safe, are from small farms with few dairy cows.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think it’s also from ideas of “return to tradition” and a veneration of a kind of rural lifestyle that largely doesn’t exist anymore. My extended family are farmers and even they got out of livestock when I was really young because there’s not enough profit except at obscene scale. But milk fresh from the cow was a thing I grew up hearing about from cousins, it was apparently viewed as safe enough for the older kids as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
Edit: also some of them are operating under the mistaken idea that raw milk is healthier or more nutritious (it’s not), or that or tastes better (actually possible, I actually heard it tasted slightly better as a kid).
Return to tradition is not the whole story.
For conservatives, power is wielded or power is seceded. In a government that you don’t trust, that’s forcing you to drink pasteurized milk, the idea of raw milk is kind of that “the government is hiding something from us” and not “the government is protecting us”. While there is some overlap between “the government can’t be trusted with milk” with “the government can be trusted with immigrants”, for the most part they aren’t necessarily the same people but they are cut from the same cloth.
They don’t want the government to control them. The government controls other people.
It’s why people like RFK are so dangerous because he now has the power to remove many of the safety nets we have grown accustomed to. Instead of Trump’s first term where COVID was downplayed, we won’t even test for avian flu. We won’t even research cures.
Not only that, given the sheer kowtowing media outlets are doing we likely will have challenges reading outbreaks in other countries.
This is not an exaggeration. We are in fascism today.
When consuming raw milk directly from your own cow its a lot safer than anything related to shipping, holding and selling it. Raw milk always contains bacteria and other microbes. These take time to grow so drinking it immediately doesn’t give them time to grow. But any amount of time between that allows them to go crazy. So it can be safe to drink raw milk in the old method where it came directly from your own cow with no time between. Its anything with scale that causes all the issues.
as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
I think you’re hit the nail on the head. There’s a concept in engineering (Hyrum’s Law) that where systems interface with each other (e.g. software), the design of one will ultimately rely on every aspect of the other, intentional or otherwise. In the case of industrially produced milk, pasteurization permits a relatively high degree of filth on the supply side when compared to practices in the EU or UK (they ship more raw product). So, it stands to reason that this isn’t just likely but exactly what’s going on since everyone can get away with it.
My mother’s been on the “natural health” train for a while now and claims that pasteurizing milk removes most of the nutrients (verifiably false). No amount of my protesting or pointing her towards sources for the contrary have convinced her to stop consuming that garbage.
It’s anti vax and anti regulation so basically a maga wet dream. Squeeze cow, milk, ta da. In reality to the other 3/4 of humanity it’s a microbial breeding ground for unfiltered mutations and diseases because you’re just trusting the entire food chain leading up to the cow has been healthy and unmutated.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk. It’s like boiling water before drinking vs drinking from a puddle.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk
Not filtering. You heat the milk. And it’ll do nothing to “mutations.” It suppresses bacteria and at least some viruses. If you double-pasteurize, it’ll also suppress bacterial spores.
The only half reasonable argument I’ve seen is that requiring pasteurisation (supposedly) makes it difficult for small dairy farms that want to sell direct to consumer, and forces them to sell to large milk companies for a far lower price. I have no idea how valid that argument is.
I don’t think so. I remember that we bought milk directly from the farm as a kid (Germany, so experiences may vary), but it always got collected in a big container that automatically pasteurized it during storage. Every farm had those, so they couldn’t have been that expensive.
If no one else has mentioned it, there are also those idiotic fascists (but I repeat myself) that were/are big on guzzling milk to show how “superior” they are because lactose intolerance is fairly common, but even more common among non-whites.
Extra Nazi points if it’s raw milk, maybe?
Regression. World is scary. Milk brought safety during infancy and the limbic system remembers.
The conscription of the granola moms.
I think it’s just that it’s a regulation, and regulation bad. I don’t want the gunment telling me I can’t drink raw milk. No, fools, the government doesn’t want people selling raw milk.
A lot of the US understands capitalism as purchasing choices at the store. Therefore if I can buy more stuff at the store I’m more free. Regulation bad.
This is handy for actual capitalist that want to abuse their workers and their customers by selling poison or watered down milk with plaster of Paris for color and liquified calf brains for texture miles from cows that are fed sawdust and literally dying. 👈 Why we regular milk now because this is all literally what was occuring.
Let them get their raw milk then?
The frightening thing is that there are a bunch of “YEAH! KILL THOSE KIDS!” people elsewhere in the thread.
Pathogens don’t care whether or not you spread them to other people who don’t drink raw milk, I’m afraid.
And people who care, actually do things like get vaccines, and believe doctors.
Unless they can’t, some people are immunocompromised. The world is more complicated than you think, so try thinking instead of reacting.
There isn’t an available bird flu vaccine that we could manufacture fast enough to make it available even if we started right now. This is assuming that they let us have it instead of telling us to tough it out and take some vitamin C.
I think that’s their point. Just let them be adults and decide. I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else. What I don’t understand is why the Democrats or people on the left haven’t seen this stuff for what it is. Also there’s no counter to this strategy. It’s like a weird game theory situation where one group is knows game theory and the other side knows how to play checkers
I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else.
That much is true. Its a proxy for industry de-regulation.
I’m all for people getting the raw milk they demand, because I hope it will lead to a quick demise.
Problem is, if they acquire a novel virus, they can basically send us into another pandemic.
This kind of crap hurts everyone.
The non raw milk people should market their milk on the carton with
Death and Disease Free
The flu in general is great at swapping proteins with other strains many of which are extant in the population right now. Every human bird flu infection of which there are presently few is a chance for highly pathogenic bird flu to make a version that is more transmissible which might yet retain its present greater than covid lethality. If this happens millions could die among them the most vulnerable including the old and those with auto immune disorders. Most of these folks who would die don’t themselves drink raw milk for obvious reasons.
Well, thankfully, civilized nations around the globe will be able to contain the damage to mostly just the fascist Imperial States of America.
No they won’t be able to. There is no tested and mass produced vaccine as of yet. There is no guarantee that a vaccine vs the present bird flu will work against what idiots brew up. Even if the experimental vaccines we have in the pipe are functional against the strain that emerges there is no reason to believe that everyone especially the poorer nations shall be able to manufacture enough fast enough to prevent widespread death.
If they die they die. It’s a risk I’m willing to take
Except they’re also giving it to their kids, who are far more susceptible to the diseases
What you said is horrible and you should feel horrible.
But your willing to sacrifice children’s lives for your own political goals is noted. Israel does something similar.
I can’t entirely agree with this. Their kids don’t deserve to suffer. But yeah, I kinda don’t have a whole lot of hope for them.
