In the marketplace of ideas, rightwing thoughts will be mocked, as they always should been…
A heel dragging regressive policy opinion should always be met as such. The world will never go back to the Wild West with gun laws, whites owning everything, women are property etc; to have a political viewpoint desiring these things and feel that it is correct is laughable.
Dipping my dick into a vat of acid is the greatest pleasure to ever exist.
What free market? All I have ever known is corporate socialism. Subsidize business with taxpayer dollars. Regulatory capture to prevent competitors from entering the market.
Somehow it’s not socialist when you prop up corporate entities with billion dollar handouts a few times a decade everytime they fuck up but a single mom getting $100 only usable for food because she was let go from her job of 5 years with 10 minutes notice is a communist plot single handedly destroying America.
Hence why our economy is going to shit.
We need to eliminate the corruption and return to free market principles, not add even more buerocracy that only benefits the Oligarchs.
If you have a better system for the future, let’s hear it.
And no, a reboot of communism doesn’t count. Fresh ideas please.
It’s the best at creating rampant consumerism and waste in the name of fake numbers going up at the cost of human happiness and fulfillment.
What makes you say that? As a random example, leaded gasoline existed for 50 years longer than it should have. We’ve known lead was toxic since the Roman empire, and the only reason it was invented was to increase profits.
Pretty much the whole world used leaded gasoline and capitalist countries were the first to phase it out. US phased it out relatively early compared to others, Japan was afaik the first to outright ban it in 86. My ex-eastern bloc country only fully banned it in 2002.
Romans died from lead in the aqueducts by the tens of thousands in Pompeii so saying they “knew” is misrepresentative to say the least. They didn’t know why. Do you really need hyperbole to make your point?
You see all these people out here suffering and still say this? Where in the world can I get what you are taking because I’d love to be able to tune out everything that hard.
It’s not that capitalism doesn’t have flaws. It’s that all the other systems so far have had worse and bigger flaws. Regulated capitalism with welfare is the least bad system by a wide margin.
Lemmy feels a lot more authentic to real life. If I started talking about tinfoil hat conspiracies, my friends would ridicule me to no end.
As they should.
Same here.
If I start talking to random people in a bar odds are I won’t meet a single one who will start calling me a Nazi because I believe in the Uyghur genocide…
And there are no conservative ideas that aren’t tinfoil hat conspiracies, I guess
True, I’d expect pretty wild conspiracies like flat earth and chemtrails to be laughed at here, but a disturbing number of lemmings and even progressives in general follow a set of less outlandish - but more insidious - conspiracies that usually fall into the “collusion and malice” type. I could say that General Motors et al. killed most of the US passenger rail and streetcar systems, and most people here would accept that as a fact. Case closed, capitalism is evil and should be abolished, every bad thing is cause by someone with I’ll intentions making it worse.
I, however, tend to be suspicious of those sorts of takes in general. Returning to the alleged “streetcar conspiracy”I’ve actually done quite a lot of research into this and can decidedly say that the primary cause of the decline of mass transit in the US was… There were at least 5 primary causes, none of which were shadowy groups deliberately working to destroy it. Rather it was killed by a changing urban environment, failures to adapt to modal shifts, legacy streetcar systems just generally sucking, and local governments taking transit for granted and assuming that they can hold streetcar companies to exacting standards while expecting them to remain solvent, all while not considering it their problem.
I could go on, and can send some sources and references (maybe not direct links though) if you’d like to learn more. But my main point is that far too many people assume there’s a nefarious actor pulling the strings the whole time when it’s usually several factors lining up all the holes in the Swiss cheese and creating a negative externality we still talk about to this day.
There (usually) isn’t a conspiracy, and if there is it’s unlikely to be anywhere near as all-encompassing as you think. People say there is because it gives them someone to blame, helps channel their anger at something tangible, and just makes a good story.
Honestly, this place is full of communists. I’m not the biggest fan of communists, to be frank. There is a lot of backwards ideas that get accepted as “leftist,” when they’re really statist. Particularly revisionist history statist. If a communist party said it, you gotta defend it kinda thing.
I don’t identify as a communist. I just don’t want life to be unreasonably difficult for people. Thats it. I just what the promise of what labor was supposed to be. I want it to free us from the shackles of work or die. Guess that is extreme left now even with tankies around the corner from us.
Exactly. We have 50 years of computer driven exponential growth and not a fucking thing is better for us. We don’t work less, travel more, be richer, live a better life, or have a better future for the planet. It should make everyone anti-capitalist.
This. When I was younger I considered myself pretty centrist, generally people would agree. My views never really changed, but the Overton window has shot so far right I now get called a commie (I guess here I’m a tankie? Still dunno wtf that’s about except a slur for ‘left of Biden’) because I think a 40 hour work week should put a basic roof over your head, whether an efficency on your own or a roomie in a nicer spot.
Not extreme left but it’s socialist and isn’t consistent with American ideals. You can bitch about that shit if you want but we’re in the decay phase after a gluttonous society and you think the answer is communism? You do, you think everyone and everything should be “fair” but life and this country don’t work like that.
Define ‘full of communists’… cause it sounds like such an american phrase and perspective. To me, it’s just a more leftwing centered space. The real communists are a minority. At least on the biggest Lemmy servers.
Lol I’m not crying “SOCIALISM!” because someone recommended taking care of poor people. And maybe it’s just the communities on lemm.ee, maybe it’s because I interact with the communities more because I can’t bite my tongue. But I come across way more communist communities than anything else. Your instance matters. I see a lot of communist communities. As an anarchist, the prevalence of communism on lemmy is troubling to me because I see huge flaws in the thinking and i want to see the left not follow down a doomed hierarchical road that has proven to be a failure over and over and over again.
Go for a walk in Hexbear and Lemmygrad communities, these are Lemmy’s communists…
There is a lot of backwards ideas that get accepted as “leftist,” when they’re really statist.
This is my objection too.
All too many people here don’t seem to even begin to understand the inherent threats of institutionalized authority, so in their rush to head off the recreation of the Third Reich, they’re basically advocating for the recreation of the Khmer Rouge instead.
Tell that to Voat, or Gab. There’s plenty of offshoot free speech platforms that got flooded with actual racists and Nazis the same way that Lemmy got flooded with actual communists and anarchists.
Ah, Voat. Come for the freedom of speech, decide not to stay because ABSOLUTE freedom of speech inevitably becomes racist.
It’s because when you have a new platform, a lot of your first users will be the worst kinds of people to exist on the internet. It’s why “”“free speech absolutist”“” spaces quickly devolve into nazi hellscapes that repel all but the most equally toxic and revolting people unless they cut their claim to absolute free speech.
There aren’t a lot of anarchists here, going by the anarchist communities I’ve seen.
What do they mean by “too extreme”? Too left?
Yes, to them Lemmy is extremely left.
Reddit and other places on the internet are so far right when you say things like ‘I don’t think poor people should starve to death’ you’re looked at as a leftist.
They get shocked when you tell them capitalism is a terrible idea and their precious freedom of speech can get fucked when it’s used to protect literal Nazis.
They get shocked when you tell them capitalism is a terrible idea and their precious freedom of speech can get fucked when it’s used to protect literal Nazis.
These opinions in particular are considered far left by the majority of people in the western world.
Just a heads up, your post might be taken as tankie rhetoric. It’s relatively common outside of .world.
Yes thank you, I’m well aware.
One of the things I like about Lemmy is that it is extreme left (I’m excluding tankies from this). What I’d hate to see is with an increasing influx of new users it gradually shifts the Overton window of acceptable opinions.
If Lemmy ever starts to espouse capitalism I’ll know it’s over.
I’ve never seen someone on Reddit or in real life suggest that capitalism is good or that freedom of speech should protect nazism hate speech. Most people would also hold that very opinion that nobody should ever starve and that they should be protected by some social economic safety net.
I’ve never seen someone on Reddit or in real life suggest that capitalism is good or that freedom of speech should protect nazism hate speech.
Are you an American? I live in a post-communist country and most of my knowledge of the US comes from various media (traditional and social, new and old), but if you are, I honestly find this fascinating, considering that free speech is even in the US constitution.
We do have laws against specifically promoting nazism, so that doesn’t really apply to me, but I’d say that about 3/4 of people here consider capitalism to be if not good than acceptable.
I definitely have. It’s usually when people explain capitalism the way it’s sold to us (like enlightened self interest or misquoted excerpts from the wealth of nations), or with economics bs strapped to the top of it. It’s always “well it’s not like I want people to starve…”
But then when you remind them “hey, there’s more than enough food, and the whole economic system is made up by humans” they treat you like a child for not understanding why their starting point is the only valid one
Are you somebody who only went to the subreddits like the Donald? Reddit is basically half a step away from being the liberal version of stormfront. Now that we left the place are we just going to pretend it’s everything we’ve always hated? Is that where we are now?
It does seem that way. I remember just a few days ago I saw a post saying that reddit would never stop praising Elon Musk
And you’re pretending it’s extremely left? Reddit was fairly middle road overall, but extremely polarizing in specific subs.
They get shocked when you tell them capitalism is a terrible idea and their precious freedom of speech can get fucked when it’s used to protect literal Nazis.
jesse, what are you talking about?
Honestly I keep coming back to this thread cuz it’s fucking hilarious. He’s made up an entire Reddit in his mind and is arguing about it. Literally trying to claim that Reddit says you must protect Nazis free speech?
I don’t think even /r/conservative would say that and those fucks are crazy.
Giving full economic power to the state does not make you less fascist. It actually makes it much worse.
Just a reminder to the true leftists who think they can force through their better society by giving society more power over the individual without changing the culture in the first place.
I am sure that will protect minorities! That’s definitely never resulted in genocide. It’ll be fine this time around.
I’ve tried explaining to so many different people that giving ultimate power to a group of people that were raised in an environment that thinks “greed is good” is fucking dumb.
Maybe I just don’t explain myself very well.
Ah yes unlike the lack of genocide from authoritarian states!
Local people need to be empowered, not politicians.
For context: OP is on lemmy.world which blocks the tankie instances if I’m not mistaken. So they seem to refer to based leftist stuff I assume and isn’t a redfash.
The true marxist based left is not woke. It never was. There’s a reason that the western left turned liberal in the 50s and 60s and focused on reform. The CCP killed any thought that decentralized communes could be self-sufficient and centralization killed any concept of liberalism and a responsive command economy. If the majority can vote their way into resources, minorities suffer. With no opposition checking the ruling party, corruption sets in.
If you are referring to the American Democratic party, they are liberal and not left.
This is correct. They draw a distinction between economic left and social left. Mainly, US liberals are vaguely socialist and definitely not communist, but mainly, they embrace ID politics. People who call themselves leftists may hold the same opinions about equality, but consider the economic system and classes much more important.
Socialist policies are the obvious answer to health, education, justice and transport issues in society.
You know, all the things that actually matter in a society.
The reason we don’t have more of them is because people continually vote against their own self interest.
Certain strands of Socialism has evolved away from a completely centralised economy in the same way capitalism isn’t actually a free market.
Socialist policies are the obvious answer to health, education, justice and transport issues in society.
Sure, as long everything is implemented as insurances and not government services.
People with the need should be in control of how to satisfy that need, because politicians and bureaucrats DO NOT know better. Always remember, someone should come up losing something whenever a need is not met.
The politicians and bureaucrats don’t know better, which is why people tell them what paths we should take as a society. Then when organizations are funded by public dollars they hire experts in the relevant fields. If the public were to take over healthcare for example, experts in healthcare policy would be hired to consult on how to overhaul the medical industry.
The reason we don’t have more of them is because people continually vote against their own self interest.
Louder for those in the back!!!
I will never understand WHY people do this. And then higher life expectancy resulting in a growing older generation population preferring policies that actively harm young people
The endless purity tests of what a true leftist is one of the main reasons they make no real change in the world.
The constant fighting over doctrinal purity consumes so much time, energy and mind space there is nothing left for actual change.
Laughable you’d level this as a criticism of the left considering MAGA republicans are waging all out war for control of the conservative party in America against more traditional republicans.
Why is it laughable? It seems pretty obvious that one of the main reasons why conservatives are still successful in the US is that they’re able to unite much more than the left. I’m too lazy to go find sources, but there are multiple sociological studies that confirmed this - despite craziness like Trump and before that Tea party and other shit, the left has been considerably more fragmented the whole time.
That’s not what fascist means. Fascism is specific a right wing ideology, because it involves close cooperation between the government and capitalist monopolies. Mussolini praised “capitalist production, captains of industries, modern entrepreneurs”. You seem to mean authoritarian.
I understand the definition of fascism. You are missing the portion by which corporations are not allowed to exist if they do not further the efforts of the state. Basically exactly the same as Marx advised towards the end of his writings. Nothing is allowed to exist in a socialist system if it is perceived to work against the needs of the people (state)
There is functionally no difference between corporations that do not control the means of production even if they are charged with running it and a state fully owning the means. It’s just middle management.
A socialist system doesn’t have to be state-based. Socialism can encompass anarchism, anarcho-communism and many other left ideologies besides state-communism.
Okay, but that doesn’t make a leftist system fascist. That’s what authoritarian means in an economic sense. There are many other aspects of fascism.
It’s as if the people who talk about it the most don’t actually have the foggiest idea what a “ruling class” actually is or how it comes to be.
What a moron.
You’ve been so scared of this communism boogeyman that you’ve allowed yourself to be convinced anything that supports your commu(nity) is bad and oppressive. Meanwhile you have absolutely no means of building yourself out of any issue that may arise further down the line.
"Derrrrr I’m so glad we don’t have any oppressive Healthcare system built that can be controlled by them demon-crats! "
-guy who pays more taxes to their Healthcare system than almost any other country and receives NO benefits from it.
Lemmy isn’t “too extreme,” a very small subset of Lemmings are just fucking insufferable.
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Tune in at 6 to hear our top story: “Water, is it really wet?”. Findings from top scientist may surprise you. 🤔
I mean, tankies are kinda worse.
Edit: seems this post is controversial! Let me clarify.
Tankies are definitely worse. 🥂
See its this shit that drives me nuts.
How did you get so hateful. Same bafflement I get with hard right wing people. I figure its the same forces being applied
There is a lot of political and other “adult” discourse. Not extreme, but more exhausting for a person wanting memes, gifs, and lols. I imagine the median age here is higher than that of Reddit. Can’t confirm, but it certainly conducts itself with less…“juvenility”…or some word.
I find the political discourse, at least on some topics, very juvenile on Lemmy. You know, screeching about how billionaires aren’t people but parasites and need to die, hundreds of upvotes. That’s some edgy, frustrated teenager bullshit. Or at least it should be, guess some people never got the memo about inalienable rights, equal treatment, vigilantism and how two wrongs don’t make a right.
Seriously, this thirst for blood is disturbing and if it isn’t just venting then, well, look how the French Revolution turned on people. That wasn’t very poggers.
There’s also this idea that everybody who isn’t 100% on board needs to be defooed and marked, preferably as a fascist. Which plays into the hands of the actual fascists because the non-fascists hate each other too much to collectively tell them to fuck off, despite their differences.
There, that’s my venting done for today.
Some Lemmings are extremely right. That is the norm on any other social media too. Luckily they were often contained on a specific instance. What I noticed tho is that at least in my german bubble the view is very, very left. That’s noticeable especially as the consensus of eg. !ich_iel@feddit.de seems to be extremely pro towards protestors of the last generation, which are often criticised in my real life bubble for their actions as they’re seen as too extreme. Could be that my RL bubble is just much more right than I perceive it to be, even after blending out some individuals.
The ich_iel community existed as sub on fuggid too, it was never as left tho. I guess there are much less older and therefore theoretically less tech savvy as well as statistically conservative folks people on Lemmy in general. Conservatives would probably care about new, better platforms anyway.
Yes, and thats not a good thing.
Communism, as practiced, is inherently fascist. Its essentially state slavery, because if you don’t work, you will be sent to labor camps where you will work. The workers do not consent.
