Summary
According to the Telegraph, a leaked confidential Trump peace plan delivered to President Zelenskyy has caused panic in Kyiv.
The proposal would grant the U.S. half of revenues from Ukraine’s resource extraction and licensing, effectively amounting to economic colonization.
The Telegraph noted, “Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924.”
Simultaneously, the plan would absolve Russia for its invasion that has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.
Well, Europe needs to grow a pair and tell Trump to fuck off. We need to accept that he is leaving Nato, and European countries need to take it over or set up a new organisation. He can make any deal he likes with Russia; Europe and Ukraine can just tell him no and show him the true limits of his power. He cannot dictate to Europe and he is not our president.
In Canada, the public discourse has finally caught up with this. We’ll see how long Europe takes to get past the denial stage.
After JD Vance’s little trip to Europe, a lot of European countries are beginning to consider the US to be an adversary.
They need to embargo us.
Make the US economy absolute dog shit so the GOP gets nuked in 2026. There’s enough GOP Senate seats in play to remove Trump from office in early 2027.
I actually agree with you. I think there needs to be a global summit right now. Every country but the US is invited.
We need to figure out how everybody can stop buying or selling to the US immediately. We need to reflow trade to make that happen.
Yes, it will be painful. But, in my view, it needs to happen.
I really hope Europe starts making some moves.
From the moment he won the election until now we’ve seen a lot of world leaders attempting to make nice with him and appease him. It should be clear now that he cannot be appeased nor will his ego ever be satisfied. He is going to take and take and take until other countries start telling him no and laying out boundaries that they’re willing to strictly enforce if need be.
In the US, there seems to be little understanding of the situation in Europe, which can create false hope. Europe is dealing with the same shit as the US, it’s just way behind. But it’s going the same direction.
Also, Europe is not enough of a united entity. There are still national states, it’s easy to stir up nationalistic moods. And in many European countries, pro-billionaire populists and far-right parties are getting to power.
I wouldn’t say there’s no hope at all, but let’s look at the real situation.
Did you leave it intentionally vague wether you were talking about P or T? I kind of find it nice how it fits both, how similar they are.
Leaving Nato drastically increases the chances he attacks Canada and attacking Canada will cause a civil war. 100%
If Trump takes Canada, he better occupy it and not integrate it politically.
Adding 40 million people to the US population without representation seems unlikely. With representation, that many people with Canadian opinions will mean no more Republican House or President for generations. Are the 10 provinces getting senate seats? 2 each? Never another red senate if that happens. Electoral College votes?
Honestly, he is going to add the second largest country in the world as a single state? Good luck.
Will 51st state Canadians be able to move to other parts of the US? Because just the snowbirds already there would turn Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Nevada blue overnight.
the 51st state thing is tabloid level headline nonsense
there is no way it would happen peacefully. , it would only happen after a military invasion or a coup backed by the US. Abandon any idea of Canada becoming a state, it would be occupied territory without legal representation and likely very few if any rights. and it would remain that way for at least a generation or two before any small “new states” were carved out, and collaborators would be allowed to rule over small regions for the interest of keeping the peace. after a healthy amount of colonization of American loyalists, murder of Canadians and imprisonment of dissidents. but all in all. make no mistake, it would be a shooting war, and it would certainly cause civil war in america too, as this is a red line.
you need only look to Eastern Ukraine to see how this sort of thing plays out.
Armed coercion, military invasion, fake referendums, importing migrants to replace the dead and evicted with "colonists’. suppression , imprisonment and murder of locals who dont swear fealty. etc.
But all leaders have to be on the same page.
And then this needs to be agreed upon once again so that the current president of the european council makes a clear statement.
If they got the balls the transition period will take some time I suppose.
This is what is leveraged currently, imo.
But this isn’t mostlikely the entire world dynamic… Idk.
I am so fucking embarrassed to be an American. Fuck this country and its “leaders”
Hopefully, we’ll open Canada’s doors to Americans like you soon. Sending you digital hugs my friend.
I really appreciate you saying this (although I’m not OP). I’m scared for my family, my kid is in the LGBTQ community, and we live in fucking Florida, the smelly dick of the US. We are getting our passports setup just in case.
I work in maintenance/construction, and I’m surrounded by MAGA screaming idiots. These people can’t be argued with. All these people care about is hurting others. It’s astounding what this country has become. A shell of its former self. The US has already failed, and none of them can see it.
Trans refugees have been mentioned as the first priority, if that’s what’s going on.
I work in maintenance/construction
Dope, you’ll find work easily. Our housing supply is jacked. I know one guy that got pulled out of retirement to be a foreman three days a week, and he says they’re paying him like he’s full-time and then some. You might even have a shot at economic migration now, although that system is a nightmare.
Like the other person mentioned, for that reason, if there’s a ton of Americans coming up all at once it’s recommend bringing your own accommodations. Even if it’s not a winter-safe RV, people can and do build a little insulated enclosure to protect the plumbing and manage heating costs.
We’ve got a housing shortage, so if we open the door to American refugees we’re going to need a lot of construction workers.
With the number of Canadians leaving Florida, I don’t expect you will be needing much home construction soon.
Fellow Floridian keeping eyes on an out, but neither my wife nor I are quite “skilled” enough to go be able to get jobs elsewhere. She may be able to but she works in the arts so it likely wouldn’t pay much. I could work anywhere being in IT but I’m not specialized enough to get anything they wouldn’t just hire locally for.
Hang in there. Ive always said Florida is the best state if it wasn’t for the Floridians.
As an American I’m not embarrassed. The whole world should have seen this coming. This country elected Trump in 2020 EDIT: My mistake, Trump was elected in 2016. Americans showed you what type of time they’re on. When he lost re-election Americans tried to force his presidency. The Democrats were too weak while they had power, always trying to take the high road. If any country is still dumb enough to rely on the US for anything then they get what they get.
EDIT 2: spell check
Trump did not get elected in 2020…he was elected 2016. Biden was elected 2020.
Have to correct because the craziest think he did win 2020.
And by “high road” you mean the one paved by donor money, not the morally high road.
The Democrats were too weak while they had power
Don’t you think this attitude is the reason why you’re in this mess? Wanting a strong ruler rather than having politicians that follow the law and try to provide good government. If the Democrats were “strong” then you’d have a Democrat strongman and you’d still be in the same mess.
The Dems are weak. And it’s not because they follow the law because they don’t, just look at that NY City mayor. They follow the money, look at Pelosi. They aren’t a party for the common person but the loudest who might net them the most money. Mostly, they’re just like Republicans in the way they cling to power until their death. How many of them have died in power due to old age instead of stepping aside to let the young legislate the world they’re inheriting? They try to follow agreed upon rules, not laws, knowing the other party won’t follow those rules.
As an example, Obama had the opportunity to appoint 2 judges to the Supreme Court. Instead of appointing a judge after Scalia died he let the next president decide arrogantly thinking it would be Clinton. He also believe senator Graham when he stated that presidents shouldn’t appoint judges during election year. Everyone with a brain knew that was bullshit! You have the power to appoint judges so do it! The second SC judge he could have appointed would replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg but that also didn’t happen because she, a dem, couldn’t let go of power and retire. Instead she dies in office during Trump’s first term. That’s the term where he appoints a SC judge during an election year and Graham forgets what he said 4 years earlier.
Now where would we be now if Obama appointed 2 more judges before his term ended? Imagine what the Supreme Court would look like if Obama called Graham’s BS and RBG gave up power and retired like the old lady she was? It’s shit like this that convinces me that the Democratic Party is weak.
Unfortunately, they are not 100% the problem. Certain groups of loyal citizens put them there.
So while I agree, fuck every politician in office, let’s not forget to give credit where credit is due to the “american” people.
And don’t tell me those same people are just brainwashed. No, those same people would have put a fascist in power regardless of how educated they are. Evangelicals are just clueless and even the smart ones suck cheeto dick.
Sincerely, thank you for specifying the State religion of evangelical “Supply Side Jesus” as its own evil cult, and not alienating the rest of us who stand with you. I always appreciate that nuance in this kind of discourse.
There’s a lot of Christians here, myself included, horrified by every second of this, watching people calling themselves “christians” give themselves over willingly to corruption and sheer evil and unfiltered hatred at an alarming rate.
Of course we’re silenced on many fronts: Most of the money for churches comes from powerful americultist organizations and donors, who are obviously in the angry orange baby Hitler’s pocket, and they’re seeding such hateful polarization that even leftists are turning on us and discounting us outright.
We’re not as loud, well-funded, or numerous as the cult of hatred and warmongering and greed. But we know that the Jesus of the Gospel who commanded us to “Love thy neighbor as thyself” is not the Jesus of the State, and to throw one’s lot in with these politicians is to deliberately side with the legions of Hell.
I am heartbroken and ashamed at how many people I once thought good and decent, who have fallen for this lie and follow such a disgraceful monster.
The percent of US Christians and veterans who picked Cheeto exceed 60% both groups should properly classed as nazis and traitors.
I grew up Christian, and denounced it all at age 15 for atheism. Later, I ended up becoming very spiritual (but not religious, more like Taoist/Buddhist). That’s when I started to realize there are nuances like this.
Admittedly, I almost did write down Christian, but I changed it 'cause of exactly what you say. It isn’t fair to the actual Christ-like that exist out there, and it’s not only Christian denominations behaving this way.
It sucks that religion in general is being used by the vile controllers to manipulate, and I wish there were more folks like you that actually questioned things and lifted the veil for themselves. Seems to me that, at least southern baptists, are practically trained to never question authority and always take information at face value if the person giving that information simply claims they are Christian. Same people believe that you should keep sex and drug information from your children, instead of preparing them for the good and bad of each they may encounter in the world.
I am heartbroken and ashamed at how many people I once thought good and decent, who have fallen for this lie and follow such a disgraceful monster.
Yea… it especially sucks when its your parents. We used to do fun things together, now I have to hide everything about who I am.
Agreed. America honestly deserves this shit. I hope they take social security away from all these old mostly boomer republicans that voted for this shit and they suffer miserably. It’s what they wanted and they still will tell you with a straight face this is what they want. I was never gonna get it anyways.
Don’t be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause “leaders” like this exist in the first place.
No. Not really. People were taught history. We have hindsight. Look around, nobody is saying Trump is anything less than a new Hitler. Nobody is saying Trump was elected fairly.
I’m going one step further. Trump did not win 2024. In Georgia, there is an old Jim Crow-era law that still exists. You can - if you live in Georgia right now - legally declare EVERYONE ELSE in your county inelligable to vote just by stating you view them as not fit to vote.
This was already used on 32,000 black people a pop by several people in Georgia in 2024, turning the tide of the election.
You didn’t choose Trump. Nobody except the people who have taken away a fundamental right of thousands of people chose him. They chose to destroy democracy to get what they want.
Evil is evil. It does not play by “No, I didn’t get elected, curses! I’ll get you next time, Gadg8eer!”. It plays by stealing what it cannot win fair and square.
Don’t side with evil, just recognize that this was not a bunch of zealots and bigots who did this. Trump literally found a fucking cheat code for election built into the system by people who are now either dead, senile or the last of their peers. The cheat code needs to be deactivated, and playing by the rules will get us nowhere.
Don’t be embarrassed for the actions of poloticians. We only have the illusion of choice in the US. You can be embarrassed for the human race if you like. Cause “leaders” like this exist in the first place.
Politicians gain their power from The People. It is alarming as an American that nearly half the country actually wants this to happen because “the other side is getting hurt” without recognizing that they too will suffer alongside the people they are told to dislike.
What was that infamous quote from POTUS LBJ again? “Convince the poorest white that he’s better than the richest black so you can pick his pockets clean [paraphrasing]”
The “leaders” of the human race have a long history of shaping "the people"s lives so that they suseptible to being convinced by poloticians. It’s like fighting against the addictive powers of social media. They hire the best to make it addictive. Many people just can’t mentally compete. That said, voter turnout was 64%, so only 32% ish voted for this. And a large part were probably dupped by the messaging.
Our people did this. I see the ignorance and stupidity on a daily basis. People are cheering this shit on. It’s disgraceful.
Have we forgotten that Trump has no power in Ukraine. All this means is that Europe has to provide a bit more funding.
Honestly, not even that much.
Keep fighting Russia without the US. Tell Trump to pound sand.
Until recently the US supplied a lot of weapons to Ukraine. That did give US official opinion a lot of weight.
Since Trump and his Republican followers have stopped all aid to Ukraine this influence has evaporated. Why would you care about the opinion of someone who has literally just left you to die?
Not really feasible. The US has intelligence assets, spy satellites, AWACs, munitions spare parts, etc. that Europe can’t easily replace or doesn’t hold the rights to distribute to Ukraine without US consent.
There is a reason the US doesn’t have universal healthcare.
The US has enough money for both universal healthcare and our obscene military budget, we just choose to only have one.
As funny as that joke is (and I have certainly laughed at it I the past), I do not believe the US is indispensable in the fight against Russia. Incredibly helpful yes. It will be a big loss. That said…
If the rest of us stay engaged, Ukraine will have what it needs.
I am much more concerned that the US will drop sanctions against Russia. Draining Russia’s bank accounts is critical.
Worse, as countries like Canada move their energy sales away from the US, I can see the US becoming a customer of Russian energy.
Also worried about Germany…
Ukraine is already struggling immensely with the US support. Imagine what will happen without US support.
The biggest problem is likely to be Trump ditching the sanctions on Russia. Or even becoming a customer of Russian energy.
Or US supporting Russia.
If Ukraine says no, Trump’s going to double down on the “it’s Ukraine fault” narrative and start supporting Russia to promote “peace”
Knowing what’s really going-on, in this world, as unconscious-mind’s imprint->reaction mind tries to smash all considered-reasoning from having ANY say in the world, aka The Great Filter,
I’d not be surprised if Trump threatened to outright-nuke Ukraina for disobeying his agreement with Putin.
People are fools to think that sociopathy-psychopathy isn’t running the world, now, calling the real shots.
The fascist-nihilist network actually wants all others butchered, & they want to have fun during the roller-coaster-ride as they preside-over/enforce it, as the ruling “kings”.
NEVER mistake an opponent playing a negative-sum-game ( nihilist-sadists, e.g. ) for an opponent who is playing a zero-sum-game ( narcissists ), or an opponent who is playing a positive-sum-game ( win-win alliance ).
Fatal folly is worthless, as “strategy”.
The US has not really done all that much. That said, as above, others would have to step up.
But the US has mostly been sending old stock and then replenishing their own. All the money they claim to be sending is being spent in the US.
And anything actually new has been very, very slow rolled. Canada made the mistake of piggy-backing purchases on US orders. Air defence systems Canada fully funded (money to the US) in early 2023 are only being delivered now.
Pretty sure this is just part of the “give them a terrible deal they wouldn’t agree to” strat that means Trump can say “we gave them a very good deal and they refused, Russia can do what they want”.
It’s all bullshit and always has been.
If this will happen expect Americans to die in terrorist attacks.
