In the post shared by Musk, the account lamented the presence of humanitarian groups in the Mediterranean Sea that rescue migrants from distressed vessels.
“These NGOs are subsidized by the German government,” the account posted. “Let’s hope AfD wins the elections to stop this European suicide.”
Elon Musk is a Nazi.
He endorses a party with Nazis in the highest positions. Bernd/Björn Höcke is the leader of the Thuringian AfD and courts decided that he’s a nazi. Not a right wing extremist, a fucking nazi.
AfD members have called for a second Holocaust (Marcel Grauf and an unknown talker at a party conference), the execution of refugees (Dieter Görnert), the imprisonment of homosexuals (Andreas Gehlmann), the creation of a new SA (Andreas Geithe), the imprisonment of left wingers in Buchenwald, a former concentration camp (Mirko Welsch) and most probably Musks favourite: Germany practicing apartheid (Holger Arrpe).
10-15 years ago I remember being told that Nazism couldn’t take hold again in Germany because of all the laws, and the education in schools about Nazis, and stigma, and people who would fist-fight Nazis in the street if they saw right-wing symbols.
Was I sold an optimistic outlook or has the situation just changed that drastically since then?
As a non-German who is particularly not keen about Nazism but who doesn’t speak enough German to keep a closer eye on it over there, I’m grateful for your name and shame overview.
German here. Sorry bro, that was all just wishfull thinking. Actually fascism can come back anytime, anywhere if we don´t actively prevent it.
Agreed about active prevention, I think that’s why I’m so surprised and saddened Germany hasn’t done much better at it. There were active legal and education strategies put in place and I wanted to believe it could support sufficient systemic change.
At 12.6% of the vote for AfD from last election though, it seems to be nowhere near sufficient. And that terrifies me.
Nazism is still a shunned no-go, and the AfD knows that (and regularly accuses others of being Nazis). The way I see it, its officials are still Nazis though, but they get around acknowledging that by just positioning themselves as counter-culture opposition to progressive movements, which is great at mobilizing a united front of anyone who feels attacked by any part of progressivism. Meanwhile, they also covertly appease other Nazis and the extreme right through dogwhistles and the like. The anti-progressive voters just ignore or tolerate this. This combination sadly proves successful. When they start building the camps, of course everyone should’ve known they’re Nazis, but no one thinks that far even though it’s their policies’ logical conclusion.
Yeah, exact same thing is happening in Australia. Even the camps, they’re just not explicitly extermination camps as much as “destroy your soul with indefinite and lengthy confinement” camps. They prefer the name “detention centres” though. I hope refugees in Europe are treated better than that.
Unfortunately we don‘t have enough left wing fist-fighters anymore, cuz „ArE yOu ReAlLy BeTtEr, If YoU pUnCh NaZiS?!“
Fuck that. Come to a punk show. We don’t put up with those shitheads. To quote The Dead Kennedy’s, “Nazi Punks, FUCK OFF!!!”
Nazis and fascists that show to punk shows leave with black eyes, bloody noses, and missing teeth.
Yeah… Reddit really made me feel like a sociopath about this. Why are we obsessed with the high road? Like… I’m teaching my son pacifism all day everyday. He’s the biggest kid, still, our checklist before hitting back has like 30 things you do first, and only to save your life. But… Nazis? Am I a fuckin dinosaur? I’ve even talked to a nazi for hours and told him I was an undermensch class in the middle of it, and seemed to get through to him with a really positive experience (per his own comments)… I’m not some murder porn violent weirdo looking for a reason… but srsly… They’re Nazis. Fuck around find out, no? Be a Nazi??? Yeah man… you’re gonna get knocked out if there’s justice and nobody is giving af about you. Aita?
Fair. It’s hard to pinpoint what is an increase in overall amount or just an increase in findable and actively promoted amounts.
I guess I just wanted to believe it was something that could be successfully removed.
I remember that we discussed this specific question at school. How dangerous it is to believe that “this can’t happen here again because we all remember it and everybody is so well educated about it”. That’s when you start letting your guard down. That’s also when people who may not identify as nazis (yet) start thinking :“Well, national socialism obviously can’t happen again, therefore MY far right views can’t possibly count as national socialism, therefore they’re ok.”
It’s all bullshit. You can educate people all you want, there will always be a certain percentage of assholes and idiots and we’ve been far too tolerant of those for far too long.
The same happens here as in every other western country. The right-wing shares their winning strategies of disinformation, populism and avoiding talking about actual policies, which seems to work more or less the same in all countries. Germany is just lagging behind a bit.
There always has been a solid 15% of the German population that is lost to democracy and favours fascist and extremely right-wing politics. This “nazi” foundation has always been well established in many governmental bodies and economic branches as they were necessary to keep the country running after the end of WW2.
Now they are employing the same tactics as before 1945: stimulating fear among disadvantaged population groups (if factual or imaginative) and scapegoating minorities (migrants) for everything bad.
The perceived hesitation and disagreement of the current government doing their part, many of the „Bio-Germans“ who feel disadvantaged turn to the idea of „the new strong man“ that finally „cleans up the cesspool“ they imagine the current political system to be.
If nothing drastically changes, I see whole federal states go lost to the AfD that especially in eastern states are nothing more than a thinly veiled new NSDAP.
Yeah, the tactics they use are very internationally copy-pasted at this point, but 15% seems higher than I had assumed. Not hugely higher, admittedly.
I thought the same 20 years ago. The positive outlook was common sense at the time, not an exaggeration. The overall vibe was inclusive, we had open borders in Europe since the 90ies, and German public opinion pro-European and progressive-leaning.
Neonazis were a thing, but a niche phenomenon. Angry young man. Not a part of mainstream society and everyone from conservative teachers to rock bands were ‘against nazis’, whatever this means.
The situation has changed indeed and it is somewhat scary. Right-wing (including fascist) talking points get significant air-time in the media. Politicians use language that appeals to far-right voters much more openly, dog whistles maybe.
The society is more divided these days. Bavaria votes next weak and you will see a strong divide between urban and rural. Trivial things like how to address groups of people including all genders are heated debates. Rational policies towards solving the climate crisises are stalling because change is seen as an attack on a livestyle. Better: Propaganda frames everything as a cultural war. Your vegan sandwhich, that’s war against cattle farmers.
Source: German
I think the only difference between Australia and Germany might be the vegan sandwich part of your post. Although, I probably wouldn’t try to order the vegan option one in one of our cattle-farming towns… but they would just laugh and call me a city-person, which would be true.
This thread has made it very clear to me that yet again, despite languages and regions, we’re experiencing the exact same issues and rhetoric. I suspect that’s true globally.
I hope we can all find a way out of this mess soon.
This will give you a study based view in this topic. https://www.dw.com/en/why-is-far-right-populism-becoming-more-popular-in-germany/a-66084741
A lot of people just stared accepting far right wing views like about abortion, LGBT hate and etc. Instead of fighting them. They also made a lot people really belive that all problems we face are not from big companies wo only pay minimum wage (which isn’t enough to support people in bigger cities) or who own over 70% of the real estate in Germany but because of left wing politics and immigrants.
“Getting hold of” can be interpreted broadly. While it’s not unrealistic that the next coalition might be conservative CxU + libertarian FDP + nazi AfD, it’s also very likely that the AfD gets banned until the next election, the responsible organization already has an eye on them. And a government with the AfD would be catastrophic (obviously), but it wouldn’t equal the creation the fourth reich. They would need a 2/3 majority to change/abolish constitutional laws and to change art. 1-20, which ensure human rights and such stuff, they would first need to change/abolish art. 79, which not even CxU and FDP would support. And here’s the fun part: if the AfD actually planned to do that, even without outright stating it, it would be enough to get them banned. The protecting mechanisms are there, the AfD can’t do anything about it and the other parties with coalition potential, even CxU and FDP, wouldn’t pave the way that far for another dictatorship.
So while it’s grim that a Nazi party is that popular, the damage they can possibly do is definitely below 1933.
On the other hand, should they gain 33% of seats, they can block all changes to the constitution. Should they occupy enough seats in the Bundesrat, they can block statewide policies. They do not need to be in power, to have a lasting impact on the German democracy. Given the current trend and that a not functional government leads to even more votes for the far right, it still looks bleak.
For one, calling every person who is against migrants or refugees “a Nazi” is really bad. I don’t know where this originally started, but people seem to use this word for all kinds of assholes.
Nazis were a political party and in Germany you learn about history of the Nazis and second world war. That’s not the same as learning how to not be against migrants or something.
Nazi symbols etc. are still forbidden and even many extremely right wing people would be appalled if you call them a Nazi. These are two different things. And the inflationary use of the word is really stupid (not directed at you, I see it everywhere online for all kinds of things). You give them an easy way out because they will start a discussion about the word or try to push the narrative that only “real Nazis” are the problem.
The movement to the right you see currently in Germany has the same reasons as the movement to the right you see in other countries currently as well.
Not particularly well-off people and/or not particularly bright people and/or just greedy people are scared they will get left behind or become less wealthy if other people take or even participate in what they see as theirs. Refugees and migrants are by far the easiest target for these frustrations.
Sorry, but no. They arent just a party that happens to be against migrants and is called nazis because of that. That is a part of their reportoire, but the connections go far deeper than that.
The AfD is anti-migrant, anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-women, anti-handicapped, anti-minority and anti-“”“bankers”“” (i.e jews).
Their members routinely (both in public and even more severely in private) make reference to programs and actions by the nazis. Every now and then a photo of one of them doing a hitler salute or standing in front of the hakenkreuz-flag goes public. They have connections to right-wing terrorists.
At the latest when höcke called for a “180 degree turn in history politics" (i.e towards the third reich, not away from it), I have lost any semblence of understanding for anyone who isnt willing to realize that the AfD isnt just a conservative party to the right of CDU/CSU.
They are Nazis.
And not calling them that for some attempt at political maneuvering just means that they and their voters arent confronted with the history and opposition to their ideas, and can instead continue to mask as “just conservatives”.
Bernd/Björn Höcke
Thins joke about not using his proper first name is so old and worn out by now it should definitely be retired. Just call the man Bernd and be done with it.
His name is Bernd Höcke, some guy instead called him Björn in a letter to the editor, a comedy show picked it up, people ran with it, others got confused, he was even announced at some point by AfD people as Björn and he clearly doesn’t like it but, as said, it’s getting old.
Wait, Bernd is a real name‽‽ I thought it was just a joke. “Bernd das brot” und das Kika Lounge, was the first time I ran into the name, and it sounds to an English speaker, like myself, like “Burned the Bread”
Short form of Bernhard, “brave/hardy bear”. As such it’s “Bernie the Bread”.
Apartheid-baby in support of nazis? Say it ain’t so.
Apartheid mining heir baby, even. The man is practically a living stereotype of modern colonialism.
If he were fictional, the author would be accused of lazy writing and overusing tropes. Unfortunately for us though, he is not fictional.
And he was called out on his own Plattform by the german foreign office for it:
The replies are insane, tbh.
It’s crazy just how quickly Musk has centralized such an extremely xenophobic and fascist community on Twitter, even compared to before.
And of course they all have that paid checkmark. No wonder he does it so consistently, it makes a fortune. Sigh.
The platform will likely get blocked within the EU quite soon if it stays this way. After a devastating report about misinformation, they loosened oversight even more, meaning it actively does not conform to EU regulations (regarding hate speech for example) anymore. Facebook has already received hefty fines for less so I honestly don’t expect Xitter to be around much longer.
You’re assuming those accounts are real, and also assuming they’re funded externally
Shame the people the reply is aimed at don’t see refugees as humans worth saving, instead they probably claim it is the German lives that the refugees “threaten” that need to be “saved”.
There is no logic-ing someone out of a position they didn’t logic themsleves in to…
Gee I wonder where they all got these brain worms that their comfort is so fragile and that everyone else envies their comfort and wants their treats and is only on a mission to steal their precious from them
I’m sure the capital owners don’t want to keep these refugees “illegal” and looked down upon so they can be exploited for cheap labor and no one will care
“Oh you had to escape the terrible material conditions created when the west either directly or indirectly installed a horrible dictator in charge of your country and people started starving/dying? Pathetic!”
And that, for one, makes a section of my moral mind and heart go “And now this again? How have people have largely forgotten our ancestor’s egregious transgressions just to go root for those people who vow to pleasurely subjugate their fellows according to their flawed, sadist worldview, be it overt or covert?”
And looking at our planet as it stands right now, culturally, politically, and morally, it seems that we are bound to repeat this vicious cycle of homicide, destruction, tyranny, cultural heritages being lost and razed out of existence, as per Derivakat & Netrum’s recent collab tune, unless we band together, whatever the cost, and at the slimmest least, uphold the positive ideals of humanity we so seek, regardless of nationality, gender, economic standing, and so on.
