Edit: Image description for Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
well, we have a saying in Germany:
“Tja…”
Sharing DMs is a dick move.
How so? On Lemmy, at least, they are absolutely not private. It is just a way for two users to communicate without cluttering up a thread or something. Not a way to communicate in secret.
EDIT: Oh, I missed the joke. DM = Dick Move. Woosh
It’s private in the sense that the DMs were made between 2 people. They are public in the sense that the admins of the instance(s) can read the DMs. Just like admins of any server can read anything that’s not encrypted at source.
so… only admins can read the mail but the counterparty can’t disclose their own mail?
wtf sort of logic does this rely on
since the text is too small to be readable, nobody can tell; but in any case, privacy matters regardless of the classification. If drag cared they could’ve asked Ada beforehand if it would be okay.
But I guess courtesy is a one-way to drag.
Ironic considering how much flack blahaj got for defending that user.
I think Blåhaj handled this person well over all. Even if Drag wad just 100% troll, drag wasn’t being fed in Blåhaj and had to go elsewhere. But also there was always the chance that drag is just someone on a journey or with things to sort out. Some people have completely given up on being any gender and treat it like a joke in an almost nihilistic way. But clearly there’s a line between that and an actual troll.
Either way, I wouldn’t say that it’s standard heterosexual cisgender behaviour to go as far as Drag did just for the lulz. So maybe one of these days, Drag will have an awakening and remember how no one in the community either fed drag or shunned drag when drag was confused and behaving badly.
I personally don’t think they were a troll but I am also not sure I agree with banning people for not remembering or wanting to use their unusual pronouns.
But I am not well-educated on the topic of neopronouns so if someone feels like educating me or suggesting some readings I am open to it.
No one was banned for not rembering drags pronouns or for accidentally getting them wrong.
People were banned for dismissing the validity of neopronouns or for deliberately and repeatedly getting pronouns wrong.
But also there was always the chance that they’re just someone on a journey or with things to sort out.
I can agree with this, but the part that’s missing is that sometimes what someone needs to hear on their journey is “My person you are OUT OF YOUR MIND right now, please come back to your fucking senses and knock this shit off because we care about you.”
Drag is just someone with an unusual gender, bot has no qualms with that. Perhaps you should use Tumblr if you wanna see more people with out-there gender identities, the trans Tumblr community is part of the reason bot still uses that site
If Drag was trolling, the troll was exposing how shallow non-binary acceptance is for your average “progressive.”
“Not feeding the troll” in that case is treating their request with a minimal level of respect, and that was simply too much inconvenience for 90% of Lemmy.world and a very potent reminder of why trans and enby folks need their own spaces.
Including some people in this thread with an axe to grind and no self awareness to stop it.
DragonRider’s pronouns are “Drag” not “they”, just because someone is a dick doesn’t mean you don’t respect pronouns. Gender isn’t a reward for good behavior.
Can you fill in the backstory? I missed this incident or possibly multiple incidents.
I can’t remember the exact details but I believe at least a few people were banned for suggesting that drag was a troll and refusing to use their preferred neopronouns.
People weren’t banned for criticizing them, they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them. I don’t think anyone was banned for not using “personal” neo pronouns.
And drag was banned from BZ for telling people to KYS, then they went and made a new account on a different instance and have continued pissing people off, now the new acount is being banned from stuff because they’ve continued the kind of behavior that got them banned in the first place.
I got most if not all of my comments on that post removed because i called them a troll that made a mockery of the trans community.
And now they banned the troll.
Blahaj said you have to respect everyone’s pronouns, even if you think they are trolling, because it’s not up for debate and you don’t get to set conditions before you start calling someone by the right appelations. Fair enough.
A user figured out that meant they could identify as a dragon, tell everyone their pronouns were “drag,” and get people banned from blahaj for not saying “drag,” or trying to tell this person that drag weren’t actually a dragon. Blahaj, in the mode of overly well-intentioned leftists throughout all history, bought into it hard and obediently virtue-signaled by banning anyone who pointed out that drag was taking the piss. Presumably, drag laughed dragself out of dragr chair every time it happened. Drag also tended to display other fun behavior like encouraging other users to commit suicide, if I remember right.
Apparently, blahaj has finally figured it out. I eagerly await whatever overcorrection or other type of continuingly-counterproductive drama is going to ensue now. Presumably, some new user will emerge with some other type of bizarre edge case in the “official correct morality” that everyone is required to agree on, to instigate everyone to get into slap fights over.
Yeah it was kind of obvious it was the attack helicopter meme from the start. The whole thing was a bit silly in the sense that pronouns which don’t reflect human reality aren’t really any kind of moral hazard for ones that do imo.
At the same time, I kind of feel like gate keeping pronouns actually gives the trolls power in a way. Imagine someone at the office does this and then everyone actually calls them a Christmas tree or whatever. The lack of concern about this new nickname in the broader population would definitely piss them off, since they are the one who cares about that stuff.
You clearly have a bone to pick, but it should be noted that Drag was a well-known user long before the post clarifying Blahaj’s stance on neopronouns was posted, at least by a couple of months.
See also Grail, who insisted their pronouns must be capitalized.
Respecting people’s gender is not carte blanche to make up rules. Like, I can’t say my pronouns have italicized vowels during local business hours, and must use thee / thou / thine if you’re disagreeing with me. That’s simply not what pronouns are for. It’s not why they matter.
Taking a ‘shut up and do it anyway’ approach to moderation is simpler, and perhaps understandable. But you have to acknowledge that’s what you’re doing. When you genuinely believe there is no limit, that gender is both super fucking important and so meaningless that it can be anything, people are going to try politely talking you through some immediately obvious problems.
It’s a nice story, but it’s not what happened.
Drag was active long before I made the pronoun post, and that post is the second post I’ve made on the topic in the last couple of years.
Drags pronouns are to be respected. Everyone’s pronouns are to be respected. It’s pretty simple.
The need for some people to need to put an “except…” at the end of that last sentence is something I will never understand.
That hasn’t changed, and the position long predates your account being created.
you have to respect everyone’s pronouns, even if you think they are trolling, because its not up for debate and you don’t get to set conditions before you start calling someone by the right […].
The issue is, they are up to debate. You cannot have your pronoun be a 1000 character long word, or a slur, and expect other people to respect it, even though they can, few probably will.
The existence of these obvious scenarios means that you shouldn’t claim to respect everyone’s pronouns, when there are times where you wouldn’t.
Respect of pronouns is not binary. It is a gradient. An instance or community can choose rules somewhere on the gradient, but if you choose to allow all, then you will suffer similar issues to those who who claim to “tolerate all” types of behavior on their instance.
Just don’t choose an absolute stance, and then these issues won’t arise.
Image description for my fellow Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
Maybe, I wrote this because lemmy.zip geoblocks the UK so I had to use my VPN to see the image.
Drag earned a lot of bans because Drag is a troll. Drag can’t help but suggest that people kill themselves, and then demand people refer to them as Drag, as they identify as a Dragon. When Drag was asked if Drag stands for Dragon, Drag implied the person asking was stupid for not knowing Drag stands for Dragon Rider. Drag also intentionally made numerous posts on .world inciting violence against government officials and wealthy Dutch citizens. Drag claimed the posts were an experiment testing .world’s admins’ dedication to Dutch law vis-a-vis Luigi /incitement to violence. And finally. Drag refers to Drag in the third person. Drag is a troll. Fuck Drag.
I blocked them a long time ago
