I dare you to travel on your own bicycle in the depths of winter across the USA in the same timeframe as a car.
One thing people don’t seem to grasp in many different situations is the vastness of the US. Most states are bigger than a lot of countries. You can fit several European countries into some of the biggest US states.
True, but when I lived in the US the majority of my trips weren’t cross-state, but 1-10 miles which can totally be cycled if the infrastructure was there.
Eh, I did that for a couple years in Utah and it was largely fine. When the snow got nasty, I took the bus.
That was back when my commute was 10 miles (16km) with a segregated bike path the whole way. My new commute is more than double that, so I drive. But if we weren’t so car centric, things would be more compact and I wouldn’t have this nasty commute.
we weren’t so car centric, things would be more compact and I wouldn’t have this nasty commute.
Hi, a different commenter here. I love public transportation (time to sit and read! meet interesting people!) and dislike cars, but realistically we often have other considerations that city design alone wouldn’t solve.
- My most recent commute was 65 miles through a rural area – I had to live in town A to support a family member and my job was in town B.
- Before that I was in an urban area, but had to live near the hospital area for my BFF’s sake, and my job was out in the suburbs 18 miles away. No bike lanes, and public transportation took 2-3 hours one way. (and this was in a city with relatively good public transportation.)
Now I WFH so that’s cool. But the experience made me realize how complex is the problem of transportation and urban design. I mean, I agree with the fact that bikes are awesome and we need better public transportation in the US, though.
Yeah, I appreciate that it’s complex, but in the US we prioritize cars instead of people.
A properly designed system will account for lots of transportation options. This means:
- force cars to go around city centers - prevents gridlock in downtown, and improves transit and walkability/cyclability downtown; enforce with car-free zones
- buses and bike paths to connect the different parts of the city
- trains to connect cities
- highways and roads connecting smaller towns
If you go to smaller towns, a car is your best bet. If you’re going downtown, a train should be more efficient, and a car should be workable. If you live in or near a city, a bike should be sufficient.
We used to have one car because I could bike to work, but now we need too, and only because of the 2 days I commute to the office. And the worst part is that there’s a train line near my house that I could totally take to work if they actually built the line they’ve been talking about for decades. But instead of building that line (connects to a larger system, including a stop at a major sports stadium), we expanded a highway (didn’t fix traffic) and we’re building a new highway (might help somewhat). Most of those cars are traveling along the proposed train route (it runs parallel to the highway), yet the highway gets priority.
I propose we rethink transit in terms of moving people instead of cars.
I am curious, how much time did it take to make those 18miles (28km?) by car? I have just checked in my city, that has really nice public transportation (Tallinn), and to cross essentially the whole city (~20km, a route that nobody does, so probably not very well connected) on Monday at 9am it takes 59m by public transport (2 buses) and 40m by car (it takes 30m generally, but traffic). 2-3h or 2/3 times that to do 50% more distance looks like public transportation is not that good, did you mean “good for US standards”?
Failed the brief on at least two counts. First, you took a bus when it got “nasty” - thus proving automobiles are more adaptable, and thus superior. Second, a 10 mile commute is not across the USA - granted the terrain in Utah is varied, but not coast-to-coast varied. You also didn’t put up your times vs. average car travel time for the route, so I’m going to assume that your average speed was lower, and your average time was also longer.
Took me 40 min each direction (best time was 30 min), car took 20-30 min (very little traffic) and the bus took 40+ min. But I could also skip the gym since I already got my exercise for the day, so I consider it a wash. With an ebike, I could cut that almost in half (legal top speed is 28mph, but nobody enforces that, so I could probably go 30-35mph). I average about 15-20 mph, depending on wind.
10 miles is really far for a bike commute though. If you live somewhere bike centric, you’d probably only go 3-5 miles, at which point the time difference is negligible and probably faster by bike because of no parking issues.
And the bus was only necessary because we don’t plow bike lanes. With proper infrastructure, I wouldn’t need the bus at all. My coldest commute was ~5F, and layers kept the ride completely comfortable, so the issue was literally only the lack of infrastructure.
My point isn’t to say the US is currently completely bikeable, my point is that with proper infra, it could be. We don’t have as nasty of weather as the NE and MW, but we do get low temps and snow, and I’ve seen madlads cycling in the MW in crazy weather.
50% of the Boston workforce commutes by train every day, and that’s with how notoriously bad the Boston T is considered. 100 years ago, before the advent of car centric urban design, the Boston T was twice the size it is today, servicing towns all over eastern Massachusetts. A big part of the reason that a car is your best option for pretty much anything is because our country was redesigned to make it necessary. We used to have streetcar towns here - trolley systems that ran up and down the major hubs in towns - that they straight up paved over the rails for, making things less accessible in the name of selling cars and gasoline. They’re also a major contributing factor in the death of small businesses and the rise of the giant box stores at the edge of town that you have to drive 20 minutes to in order to go food shopping.
Your argument is in bad faith, and your reasoning is disingenuous. Pretty much every large town west of the Mississippi grew around a train station. Nobody is taking away your freedom to sit in traffic on your morning commute. But imagine how much better that commute would be if you could take 50 cars off the road per bus or hundreds per light rail train. The average commuter car in the US has 1.2 people in it. If you make it so that drivers don’t have to deal with walkers and bikers, and vice versa, everybody wins.
Was this all an attempt to “gotcha” people to prove that cars on free roads go faster and protect you better from elements than bikes? I mean, yeah of course they do. This doesn’t make them “superior” in an absolute way because superiority depends on parameters. Take cost, health benefits, maintenance costs, environmental impact and bikes would be superior.
Can’t talk about US, but in Italy the daily average by car was between 10 and 15 kilometers I seem to remember, that is 30-40min by bike at a slow pace. For that I would 100% say that provided infrastructure exists, bikes are a largely superior transportation vehicle compared to everything else. If you talk about traveling between islands I would say a boat is more efficient, or if you have to travel 500km I would say planes are. Superiority depends on the specific evaluation, that’s my point. For the kind of coast to coast trip you mentioned, in winter, I would say trains can be vastly superior to cars, for example, and they can be combined with bikes.
Traveling across the entirety of the US by car in the middle of winter sounds fucking miserable. That’s what trains are for.
If you happen to enjoy that kind of thing and aren’t on a tight timeline it is fun as hell. Like a mechanical version of hiking.
Like hiking, most people don’t enjoy it or aren’t really up to the challenge.
Like a mechanical version of hiking
I can’t wait to describe driving this way to a friend so that we can both share in the laughter I’m enjoying right now.
I think the guy above you was just talking about regular driving on the freeway, not overlanding in a 4x4.
Trains only travel along previously laid rails, at specific times. Plus, you’ll need to rent a car at the other end to get anywhere. Better to take your own car and have personalized comfort the whole way. Also, yes, it does sound miserable. But if you’re in a car, turn up the heater, turn on the radio or your favorite music, and just vibe while driving safely.
But if the cities were built for people rather than cars, you wouldn’t need to rent a car at your destination. And trains run often if they haven’t been critically underfunded for decades. And you can’t really drive safely, even if you’re a perfect driver, someone can run you off the road. Trains are orders of magnitude safer.
Cars also travel along previously laid paths. I mean, technically there are off road ones that dont have to, but unless youre on your own land trying to get from one place to another without following the roads wont go so well.
That’s impossible and no one is implying that bikes should replace other modes of transport for interstate travel. However, I bike commute in winter in Wisconsin and it takes less time than riding the bus. Driving a car is faster than my bike commute, but only marginally so.
Then bikes are not more freeing than cars. The means of easy, unscheduled, interstate mobility should be the American symbol of freedom. That’s not a bicycle.
The reason you can’t is much more about infrastructure than weather, especially within cities
Source: I live in Scandinavia and everyone bikes even when it’s cold
Just out of curiosity, do you have snow tires for bikes or are the paths cleared well enough not to worry about it?
Where I live we often get mixes of sleet and ice along with the snow and since it is sporadic throughout winter we do a pretty mediocre job of funding the removal. If we didn’t have so many wide roads it probably wouldn’t take as much effort.
Here not just bikes talks about winter cycling in Olou, Finland. The answer is yes, the city needs to manage the lanes during winter instead of letting it be acceptable to push snow in bike lanes or leave them uncleared. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
I run studded tyres during winter, but the city also uses a clearing technique where they first clear off all of the snow from the bike lanes and then salt them to prevent ice. This kind of wreaks havoc on your components through corrosion, but leaves the lanes highly usable throughout winter.
I use the studded tyres as an insurance policy against any poorly cleared spots. They are usually pretty good about it, but sometimes the weather will just be bad.
I’ve been told that fat bikes do better on full snow, but I’ve never ridden one myself so I can’t confirm it.
But demonstrate the incontrovertible need for a car during one’s regular commute through an average modern city. And I’m even offering the main exception - busses and taxis/ride sharing/whatever the current nomenclature, as I consider public transportation to be its own independent thing, unrelated to Cars.
I think the people who would enjoy such a venture via bike have or are already doing it, the rest of us would just like to be able to ride the bike through the city without having to play Frogger with three lanes filled with enraged lumps of cortisol *wrapped in two tons of steel and various other such substances.
Edit: added * to further drive home the viscerality of my desire.
I live in a city of 60,000 people in Colorado. The closest train station is 15 minutes away, by car. There is a bus that will take me to the train station, but it’s an hour to walk to the closest one and the bus comes once an hour, 6 am to 7 pm, M-F. I can’t afford to spend 4 hours on a quick trip to the grocery store and never leave my house on the weekends.
There are bike lanes on the main roads (4-6 lanes 50+ mph traffic). More than half the vehicles around here are massive jacked up trucks and SUVs. I have a bike, but do not have a death wish. It regularly snows, making bike riding a no-go for most of 4 months of the year.
I am very much in favor of reducing car traffic. But it’s not feasible for so many people with the way cities are designed and the lack of public transport.
I mean, that isnt really an argument against public transit and bike infrastructure, its just an argument that the way to do it isnt to just tell people to stop driving and expect it to happen, one has to redesign cities to make these options feel like the safe and natural choice.
You might need to rendezvous with another vessel mid-trip for gas, but amphibious cars do exist.
$20 gas gets me much, much, much further than $20 in eating high carb prepared food when riding my bike between point A and B. Not fuel efficient, in fact, energy expensive, but it is over all cheaper than a car if you can handle the potential physical abuse of riding a quarter mile up hill to your house. I did this last year while my car was in the shop, I learned I lived at the top of a hill, in the middle of a valley. Lost around 14lbs in a week just running errands, and I was carb loading like crazy. Carbs, meat, sugars, and tons of water. Riding a bike is all laughs and giggles until you’re doing it to get meat and milk to fuel your required errands and despite eating everything in sight you’re still losing weight at a shocking pace… They had my car a month, I was able to hold out on most errands until around just before the final week, went from 179, to 165. Kept eating as I felt I needed and was back up to 175 in about a week after getting my car back, and with recent exercise and pushing myself I dropped to 169 while increasing my max weight, it’s really only surprising when you find I was 280ish lbs just 6 yrs ago… I digress, bikes are tough on the body.
$20 gas gets me much, much, much further than $20 in eating high carb prepared food when riding my bike between point A and B.
Let’s see. Assuming:
- Gasoline costs $3/gallon
- A car gets 30 miles per gallon
That works out to where $20 buys 6.7 gallons or 200 miles.
Assuming cycling burns 50 calories per mile, you’re looking at 10,000 calories of excess energy usage to travel 200 miles.
At 1700 calories per pound for dry pasta or dry rice, that’s about 5.8 lbs of pasta or rice, probably less than $10 in most places.
Or course, people eat other things, and will likely increase their consumption of everything in a ratio proportional to their increased caloric needs, not just adding carbs to some kind of baseline amount of food for their BMR, so I wouldn’t expect it to be that cheap in real life. But there’s a little bit of wiggle room to work with for anyone cooking their meals at home.
> hills
huh? i mean ig but why not just walk your bike? its not any different than walking besides having your hands on the bars instead of ur pockets or whatever lol, and it gives you an opportunity to change positions and stretch your legs
I know a couple of people my age (about 40) who really prefer not to drive, but it’s such a strange preference IRL that I suspect most people online who claim that it’s what they prefer have just never experienced how much better it is to have a car and live somewhere where driving is convenient.
I know that sounds patronizing but I was a bikes/mass transit supporter myself when I was younger and it was 100% because I hadn’t learned how to drive and I didn’t know what I was missing.
That’s fun. I was a driver kid and didn’t know what I was missing till I moved to a place with good bike/public transport infrastructure.
I suspect people who claim that they prefer to have a car never experienced how much better life quality is in a place without cars where cycling is convenient.
(The noise pollution alone is worth it!)
There’s no accounting for taste, as the saying goes, but where have you been that is quiet but not car-reliant? The lower population density that is made possible by driving reduces noise much more than cars increase it.
You underestimate how much noise cars make. I’m 20 meters from my neighbors and I never hear a peep. Meanwhile, I’m a kilometer from the highway and I can hear always hear it at least a little bit (and a lot when the wind is in my direction). So you have to go really low density, like 1 house per square kilometer and 5 kilometers of dirt road before even reaching a regional road, to go quieter than this, but… unsurpisingly, not many people live there.
I drove cars for years until I was fed up that I need more time to clear the windows of ice in the winter than the actual drive. That’s when I switched first to a moped, then to an e-scooter (the small one which you stand on) and then to an e-bike.
It’s such a difference to be out in the open. It’s fun.
I’ll never go back owning a car. They cost a lot more than my bike and I always feel stressed using them (driving = maintaining focus all the time, that is stress).
I now don’t need to go to a gym anymore. Cycling is enough to keep me fit.
I wouldn’t assume everyone who disagrees with you is naive just because you were naive in your past agreement with them. Really, going to bike friendly places with lots of busses, trains, sidewalks, paths, etc… it’s just very nice. Yes there are conveniences to cars, but the biggest convenience a car can ever offer is freedom from the inconveniences of not having a car in a car-based society.
Cool let me just bike 30 miles to my job and back everyday sounds good
Also make sure you get groceries as well, I’m sure a weeks worth you’ll be good to carry back.
Why would you need to buy a weeks worth of groceries? Just buy for 1 or 2 days. Make additional grocery trips as needed.
Yes because everyone loves to go grocery shopping every other day, and with a bike, who cares if you gotta do another 5 miles out of the way.
If your skills are so specialized that the only company that hires someone like you is that far away, you can probably afford to relocate.
