Summary
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has begun administering polygraph tests to employees in an effort to identify individuals leaking information about immigration operations.
DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and border czar Tom Homan have blamed recent leaks for lower-than-expected ICE arrest numbers.
Noem stated that two leakers had been identified and would be prosecuted, though it’s unclear if polygraphs were used.
While DHS has used polygraphs before for hiring screenings, they are now being used to question employees about leaks of classified or sensitive law enforcement information.
Your regular reminder that polygraphs are junk science that arent admissible in court.
You’d be just as successful finding the truth by hiring a phrenologist to study the bumps of peoples heads.
I had a co-worker who managed to score himself a pretty decent aerospace job. He was a damn good coder, college graduate, No debt no drug use whatsoever, nicest guy in the world. This one time a baby mouse got stuck in a recycling can by his desk. He gave it water put a little piece of Rice Krispie treat and with it so it had something to eat. The mouse took a bite of the rice krispie treat and kealed over dead. He sobbed about that for the whole day and was mopey for the rest of the week.
Anyway he passed all the practical exams with flying colors. They’ve gone through months of investigation, and he was fine. Finally came time for the polygraph. He went for the poly and found some time later that it was not good. They scheduled him back for another poly. Some number of days or weeks later it came back as “not good”.
I’m like dude, what’s happening when you’re going in there? Are they asking you complicated morality questions or something? Basically, it came down to about halfway through the test, he would just start freaking out that he wasn’t going to pass it and get nervous and upset. The second time he actually cried a little bit.
He never did get that job. But I can assure you that if he had he would have gone to his grave with any secrets that ever would have come out of there.
Polygraph tests are so unreliable, they’re not even admissible in court.
Not exactly a rock solid case if someone who’s fired decides to sue - which I hope happens frequently.
they’re “reliable enough” for their intended purpose here: fire people who aren’t “in line”.
Yeah, but the DHS is taking a massive risk each time they fire someone because of a polygraph. Without other evidence, they will have no legal defense if sued.
It’s in their contract that the results of a polygraph are grounds for dismissal alone. They have no grounds to sue.
If you’re going to rely on pseudo-scoentific bullshit, you might as well bring in some palm readers and voodoo priests instead. At least that’ll be entertaining.
EDIT - Just want to add this - Never, under any circumstances, should you take a polygraph test. If you are a suspect (legally or otherwise), they will not use the results to exonerate you. If they suspect you did it, but the polygraph doesn’t detect any deception, they will throw out the results as “unreadable” and pursue other means of investigating you. But if the results detect deception, they will treat it like the fucking Oracle at Delphi.
Seriously american obsession with this snake oil bullshit is staggering. It never worked in any reasonable extent and how could it?
The idea of detecting lying by measuring “heart rate and co” is plainly idiotic and anyone who’s part of this should be shamed into obscurity.
Do we officially call them the US Gestapo yet or do we wait until they resort to torture on US soil?
Glad they’re using polygraphs, they’re unreliable enough that the leakers won’t be caught.
No, they’re unreliable enough that whoever they want to be caught, will be caught.
They’re just trying to scare people enough into having a reaction or admitting fault. Someone could also fail because they are afraid they will fail or they’re afraid they’re a suspect. If the actual leaker thinks they’re doing the right thing andthat the poly can’t catch them, they probably won’t even have a reaction.
As someone who has taken a polygraph, there’s nuance.
First, they’re unreliable because they can be beat- but neither you or I are beating them, you have to be trained to beat it.
Second, the reason they don’t work is because you can just not talk. But if you’re forced to talk to keep your job, you’re gonna show lots of lying indicators.
Third, it’s not a binary “did you lie”. They’re watching your blood pressure, heart rate, detecting any fidgets; things you subconsciously do when you lie. The person administrating the polygraph will then press you into a confession.
Polygraph is the biggest snake oil in contemporary crime “science” and frankly its infuriating that it still exists and everyone who defends it should be bullied into returning back to sanity.
Edit: Not going to bother responding to the silly replies from armchair psychologists who feel smart “knowing” polygraphs are unreliable. For the vast majority of the population, when answering binary questions, you will answer them differently depending on whether or not you lie. Regardless of whether or not “this is admissible in court”, it’s more than enough to deny someone a clearance renewal. Rub your brain cells together and extrapolate.
Thats just plainly false.
There’s no reliable correlation between lying and heart rate or any other bodily functions. It’s an intellectual act after all not a physical one. It simply doesn’t compute.
The physiological response could be driven by literally anything and there’s no way to isolated it to “lying” - what if I’m nervous just because I’m being interrogated by people who are known to be dirty and untrustworthy?
Polygraph is the biggest snake oil in contemporary crime “science” and frankly its infuriating that it still exists and everyone who defends it should be bullied into returning back to sanity.
The physiological response could be driven by literally anything and there’s no way to isolated it to “lying” - what if I’m nervous just because I’m being interrogated by people who are known to be dirty and untrustworthy?
This is why they’re unreliable. Too many false positives. But the stress of lying can produce a physiological response, which is the basis for the polygraph in the first place.
But people can also control their responses, so there’s also a high possibly of false negatives.
The true positive and true negative rate is too low to be considered reliable, but it’s not like there’s zero basis in fact, like those bomb scanners that were literally empty shells.
There is no machine or drug or anything else that can “detect” a lie or signs of deception. Polygraph results are purely interpretive, and anything that’s given to interpretation is given to the bias of the interpreter. Polygraph results are also wildly inconsistent. That’s why they are generally not admissible in court.
