“I feel terrible for the American people because it’s not the American people, and it’s not even elected officials, it’s one person,”
Like hell. Congress is the one thing with the power to end this madness. The Republicans in control of both houses are absolutely responsible as they are doing literally nothing to rein in Trump’s madness.
Idk how much of a threat it actually is, but wasn’t musk threatening to primary anyone who went against him?
If a threat from an unelected foreign Nazi is all it takes to keep you from doing your job, you’re not fit to hold public office.
Well thanks to campaign funding in the usa musk could pay for any member of House to loose reelection
I initially read this as if Musk said he’d have them killed, since in EVE Online “to primary” someone means for a fleet commander to call someone out as the primary target and have their fleet start shooting at them.
The person you responded to just said that Trump is not the only problem, and pointed to the power of other elected members of the party. So when you say “you are so very wrong”, that seems to suggest that Trump is the only problem (since that was the main point being made); and your follow-up about the will of voters reads as a non sequitur.
“I feel terrible for the American people because it’s not the American people, and it’s not even elected officials, it’s one person,”
Americans elected Trump, and Americans are failing to do anything to reign Trump in.
These are the official policies for the COUNTRY! So unfortunately, this is not just one person, it is de facto USA as a whole.
If it was only Trump, it would just be Trump refusing to buy Canadian for himself. As it is, the whole apparatus is enforcing these decisions, and they impact all of USA.
The US electoral system is broken and has always been broken. Republicans have spent the past 2 decades gerrymandering and introducing as much legislation as possible to manipulate the outcome of elections in as many districts as possible. They’ve introduced legislation: to prevent people with debt from voting, to prevent people with criminal records from voting, to prevent people who cannot physically make it to polling stations from voting. The Republicans and the ruling class own all the largest media organizations in the United States, and they have weaponized social media and traditional media to indoctrinate and manipulate as many people as possible.
Trump won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. He won mostly because Republicans and Democrats are material allies in neoliberal and imperialist endeavors. Democrats refused to campaign on progressive politics, instead choosing to run on a more conservative campaign than they ever have before.
The working class is not responsible for their own manipulation at the hands of the ruling class. It is not their fault that the system is broken. It is not the fault of American families who literally can not afford to resist, as without the income from their jobs, they will lose their homes and be unable to feed themselves and their children.
Capitalism is the problem. Conservatism, and by extension neoliberalism and fascism, is the problem. Donald Trump is an accelerationist fascist. He will not wait and seeks to plunge the nation headlong into fascism as soon as possible. But do not mistake that as being in opposition to the social and political system of America. Donald Trump is entirely a representative of the failure of American democracy, not a representative of the American people. He manipulated people into voting for him, as evidenced by widespread outrage at his actions even among those who ostensibly voted for him.
The only thing I can assume that is referencing is when felons can’t vote in some states unless their court obligations are done. Some states passed laws where you can’t have your voting rights reinstated unless that court debt is paid off. That includes payment. Some people did their time but haven’t paid off their court fines.
The US electoral system is broken and has always been broken.
Oligarchy was built into the US electoral system, it is not broken but operating as designed. Only rich white males had any rights in the beginning, and every change since then was window dressing that could easily be taken away, as we are seeing now. The masks have dropped, the world is seeing the true USA. Genocidal, imperialistic, slave owning, bigoted and patriarchal. Nothing new to anyone with eyes and a brain.
The US electoral system is broken
Which is why it’s considered a flawed democracy, which I stated.
Republicans have spent the past 2 decades gerrymandering
Except Trump actually won the popular vote this time. Making this argument void regarding the presidential election 2024.
Republicans and Democrats are material allies
That far I agree, they have arranged it so they share power, except this time, Republicans may choose not to share it anymore.
The working class is not responsible for their own manipulation at the hands of the ruling class. It is not their fault that the system is broken.
Isn’t it? Haven’t they mostly agreed on this arrangement because for decades many thought they benefited from it too?
Capitalism is the problem
I partially agree, but there is no real alternative to capitalism, and definitely not anything proven, the problem is not capitalism but how it is managed. In a social democracy it can work pretty well.
Regarding the capitalism part
I’d say that what we see today is the logical conclusion of capitalism. In a way it’s a broken system, it just takes time to collapse. But growing wealth inequality and consolidation of power are inherent problems in capitalism, and we were always going to see times like this. I mean, for further example, look at climate change and how it’s damn near impossible to actually solve the problem
It’s more that there is little political will for an alternative system, but don’t get me wrong, if humanity wants to survive in the long run, there is no easy way out. I seriously do think that, either humanity makes a global economy that serves people, and not capital, or we will self-destruct due to systemic incentives of the profit incentive
We have been a flaws democracy the entire time of our existence.
Trump barely won the popular vote by 2 million and less than 50% of all votes. At best, 1/3 of Americans voted him in and unfortunately 1/3rd (beyond those who were disenfranchised) didn’t bother even showing up. Leaving 1/3rd who did or could do anything about it.
We’re pushing back. Unfortunately we have the law to work through and they’re just breaking the laws. Time will tell if the guardrails have completely fallen off. It’s not looking great but we have seen progress fighting back.
If you had read the rest of my first line, the American electoral system has always been broken. This isn’t a new state of affairs. The working class of America has been in a perpetual state of manipulation into further and further right-wing politics since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.
He won this election with fewer votes than he lost in 2020. Ultimately, the popular vote is largely irrelevant as the number of votes overall is not what determines who won the election. He won in 2016 without the popular vote. Voter manipulation and strategic disenfranchisment won them that election and this one.
Correct, so the American public had a choice between conservatism and fascism. A state of affairs that outraged many people. The democrats and the Republicans share an interest in their corporate benefactors. They will unite to seek better outcomes for the ruling class at the expense of the working class. The democrats will and have consistently refused to adopt popular politics like those of Bernie Sanders and AOC. Those politics are in contrast to the desires of their benefactors.
The working class has been manipulated through a union of the education system and mass media to indoctrinate them into fascism and further anti worker politics. Even in traditionally democratic held states, there is a persistent refusal to educate children on anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist politics. There is a refusal to educate children on the failures of American democracy and an insistence on nationalist indoctrination. In red states, this is even worse. These problems have existed since at least the presidency of Richard Nixon and to differing extents even before then. American fascism is the system. It didn’t start yesterday, and has been manipulating the American working class for a very long time.
Even more than that the entirety of the media and education systems unite to indoctrinate the working class into anti working class politics. It indoctrinates the people into believing civil unrest is wrong, that protest and demonstration is wrong, that all political violence is wrong. This is deliberate. It is a deliberate effort to protect the interests of the ruling capitalist class.
Socialism is an alternative to capitalism. You have been indoctrinated by the capitalist ruling class into believing that socialism has never functioned. It has and continues to do so today. Socialism and authoritarianism are not equivalent concepts. The failure of authoritarian socialist states were failures of authoritarianism, not of Socialism. Capitalists have taken advantage of those failures to manipulate billions of people, like yourself, into seeing Socialism as the problem. It isn’t. Capitalism is and has been a global failure. A system that serves the self interests of billionaires is a failure. A system where workers do not own the fruits of their own labor is a failure. A system that tolerates landlords and private corporations is a failure.
I partially agree, but there is no real alternative to capitalism, and definitely not anything proven, the problem is not capitalism but how it is managed. In a social democracy it can work pretty well.
Chiapas is doing just fine, without capitalism. For 35+ years now. Even in the face of Mexican and US opposition to them.
And it’s not like the tariffs were a bait and switch. Trump literally had them in his platform.
In fact, all the crap he’s been pulling was in his platform. He’s doing exactly what he promised he would do, and half the country was like, “Maybe this isn’t a good idea” and the other half enthusiastically voted him and then are shocked he’s doing exactly what he said he would do.
This is like the time the UK voted for Brexit and then became shocked when Brexit happened.
In fact, all the crap he’s been pulling was in his platform.
Yes, and he was making similar attempts about everything he is doing now already in his first term. So these policies aren’t new, and Americans voted for it.
This is like the time the UK voted for Brexit and then became shocked when Brexit happened.
Yes, but this is actually worse. Although Brexit cannot be reversed, and Trump’s first term was somewhat reversed. The way USA is acting now, threatening every ally they have, very seriously undermining NATO, Europe, democracy and Ukraine, threatening to destroy economies of Canada and Mexico. This can never be forgotten. USA is not even considered an ally anymore in most places that used to be the strongest allies of USA.
Yup. Whoever is next, and hopefully that will be in January 2029 if not earlier, is not going to have anything like the same influence that previous presidents have had. They will be able to deescalate short-term issues and generally provide a lull in the storm, but Trump has exposed the fragility of US power, and his base proves that America is an unreliable partner, so getting anything significant done that might cross administrations is going to be so much harder. Even if the next president is not insane and is without any above-average level of evil (neither is guaranteed), then that only helps temporarily. Hell, even if there’s some sea change in the electorate that makes democratic allies more optimistic, recovering from Trump 2 is going to mean the US looks inward for a time and there will be, if not a power vacuum, a serious low-pressure system that draws in disturbances.
Now, I’m not sad about the decline of American hegemony per se, but this is very much a “not like this” moment, and a slower unwinding would be better for stability. Our best case scenario here is that our allies understand the conflict inherent in the American ethos and work with us where practicable but also pursue the “strategic independence” we’ve been hearing about. I hope it’s Europe that steps up and reasserts itself, because barring a very unlikely leveling of the international order, your other options are China bulldozing the world for the financial benefit of the party, or Putin throwing bodies (both at enemies and out of windows), cutting off fossil fuels, and threatening nuclear war every time he doesn’t get his way.
This. I can’t stand how they blame the system for a choice they chose to make, be it voting for the orange turd, or sitting it out to protest a war halfway across the world, knowing fully well that he’d use that complacency ro return to office. Now the rest of us are dragged into the muck.
Absolutely, Trump was elected in a democratic election.
USA is a (flawed) democracy supposedly with checks and balances.
It’s not like some military general overthrew the democracy out of nowhere.
Obviously there are good Americans that oppose this, and tried to prevent it, but they are unfortunately a minority, and as a whole USA as a country is doing this, and letting it happen.
The people who voted for him got scammed. They’re stupid, but it’s not their fault either. They are spiritually invested in a scam.
but it’s not their fault either.
IDK isn’t it? Good information is available, and they choose to ignore it. I know victims of scams can be so entangled with it, that they can’t see it, even when the police arrest the scammers, and show them the evidence they were being scammed.
But at that point, isn’t that too their own fault that they choose to believe the scammer over police and evidence?
I don’t think we shall give a pass based on “stupidity”, staying stupid is generally their own choice.
The people I know who voted for Trump do not know how to filter and grade the quality of the information that they are receiving. They don’t read very well and they absorb every click bait headline and Facebook meme that gets shown to them. They genuinely do not have a clue.
They are easily manipulated by parties who do not have their interests or the interests of the world in mind. It’s a known problem that is discussed constantly.
You people have worms in your brains, just like the Republicans.
Life is not black and white, though you know who loves to think in black and white? Fascists. Also, you know who loves this idea of lumping together the American people as a whole? Trump does.
you know who loves this idea of lumping together the American people as a whole?
I have often written in comments that criticize Americans that there obviously are good Americans, that tried to prevent this. Just because I didn’t include that part here doesn’t mean I am generalizing wildly, and think they are the same whether they voted for Trump or Harris.
But that doesn’t change the fact that the Trump administration is the administration for ALL of USA, because they voted him in. We can’t make trade agreements or buy weapons from the people who voted against Trump, because that is simply not how it works. We have to respond to the country, not individuals. So this situation is one that the COUNTRY is in, not just Trump or MAGA. And the country let Trump and MAGA win.
We also can’t wait out the 4 years Trump is president like we did last time, because Russia has invaded Europe, and USA is failing completely as an ally, and is actively hostile now. Preventing F-16 planes and Himars from working, that were given to Ukraine by Europe. Failing even in sharing intelligence that doesn’t cost any money to share, and negotiating 100% on behalf of Russia. The allied countries need to move on without USA, that’s not at all up for debate. Allies can no longer trust American equipment.
It’s not Trump alone, it’s all of USA that is failing democracy and former allies. Not just Texas, and not just half the population that voted for the fascist despite the warnings.
If you can’t see that, you are denying reality.
Closer to a third voted for him.
We live in an era of mass communication, unlike what was feasible during any other point in history. More now than ever the working class is the working class wherever they are. The working class of the United States have much more in common with us than they do the ruling class.
We should absolutely be promoting an understanding of their struggle. Nationalism is an illness, even if it’s nationalism to a non-fascist state.
American here.
Keep doing what you’re doing Canada. Don’t play this retard’s game. The ONLY thing conservatives understand is money. Hit them where it hurts. It’s the only thing that’ll make them sour on this traitor.
American trade is nearly worth half of Canada’s total GDP. something like 75~80% of total Canadian exports go to the US. if they actually retaliate in force they could be dooming their country to an economic crisis if Trump is spiteful enough. so far the Canadian tariffs have only touched about $30B worth of goods, or 7% of the total trade.
Bottom line is Canada can’t rely on an unreliable country that literally threatens them.
It’s time for the world to move away from working with the U.S. We’ve shown we aren’t trustworthy. Canada needs to increase trade to other countries to compensate.
sounds nice in theory but i don’t think people realize just how integrated their economy is to the US
entire industries are completely dependent on US trade. they traded large swathes of their economic autonomy away for easy access to the US market. prosperity was deemed more important than sovereignty
it’s a decision that was decades in the making and it will likely take decades to reverse.
and if we’re being honest it shouldn’t have exactly taken Trump to make Canada realize the US acts in its own interests. Look at NAFTA signed by Bill Clinton. We pressured Canada into accepting a deal that forced them to maintain a certain level of oil export to the US even if there were domestic shortages.
It’s not the type of agreement equal parties or allies come to. It’s a relationship of domination. Always has been
While true, the Canadian government has already announced grants and loans to help Canadian companies restructure their supply chains away from the US. It’s a start. While the legal framework exists, Canadian companies haven’t yet had a reason to take advantage of new free trade agreements with the EU and the Asia Pacific. Now they do.
Also, in terms of numbers: about 25% of Canadian GDP is based on US trade; a little lower than the number you quoted, still too high, I’d say. Hopefully, the Canadian economies’ smaller size will prove agile enough for the transition. I’ve also seen it suggested that the hit to the Canadian economy from Trump’s attacks could be offset by removing internal trade barriers so that Canada can trade more efficiently with itself. This has been a huge shot in the arm for that project.
20% of US exports go to the EU, 18% go to Canada, 17% to Mexico, and less than 10% to China. Similarly, about 70% of US imports come from those same markets. This will be devastating for everyone, the US included. It won’t be the ‘short period of transition’ the bloated diet coke goblin imagines. World trade patterns and supply chains will literally be upended.
Also, in terms of numbers: about 25% of Canadian GDP is based on US trade
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12595 US-Canada trade amounts to $920B
Canadian GDP roughly $2.1T
Or roughly equivalent to ~40% of GDP depending on the year
This will be devastating for everyone, the US included.
it will be painful for US but whatever US feels, Canada & Mexico will feel 3x worse (and that number can go up 10x worse if they retaliate)
go to figure 1. us economy might slow ~0.3%. canada & mexico go into recession. -3% easy with retaliation
note the tariffs are stupid and reckless and cruel and i don’t support them at all. im just adding context because i did not realize how fucked Mexico & Canada were until I looked into it
Canada’s total exports are about 35% of total GDP. So that puts US exports at somewhere around 24% of GDP. Pretty high but then if we exclude oil and gas and potash exports it’s a much, much smaller number. So small in fact that we would probably replace those exports within 12 months.
I wonder if anyone else other than the US wants some oil, natural gas, or potash? And yes I know we currently lack pipeline capacity but at this point I’d be willing to let the government finance it all to move oil and gas to the east coast.
I really think Americans over played their hand.
You’re not alone! It looks like investors also think they overplayed their hand, judging by the reaction of the markets. Terrible combination of Trumps silky smooth brain and US exceptionalism.
Also, not the first time I’ve seen the 40% GDP figure make an appearance. Must be doing its rounds on US propaganda networks.
4/5ths of a country’s exports do not get rerouted in 12 months.
i feel like the most likely outcome is that Canada (and Mexico) end up playing ball with Trump once he feels he did enough of whatever stupid PR stunt he needs to do and ameliorates a bit
Canada is not gonna get a better market for its goods than the largest economy in the world that speaks the same language and has had decades of integration. point blank isn’t happening
right now there’s a wave of nationalism sweeping canada (maybe that was trump’s goal- encourage populism) but reality sets in eventually and the banking class will do whatever they have to do to keep those economic indicators up
Good
Yeah we’re not playing this back and forth game, just hit the Americans with tariffs and make them stick. Tbh I’m liking this “buy Canadian” movement that Americans have finally awakened
As an American… me too. I buy everything Canadian that I can. As long as he is in office, I’m buying foreign made. Idgaf about the tariff hike to do so. I’m voting with my wallet from now on since my vote doesn’t mean shit.
You’ll end up contributing more funding to Trump’s government that way. I’d consider just taking a 3-4 year vacation in Canada instead.
