Why must every faction of Progressives attack each other. Bernie Sanders is the most solid progressive I know of, but Code Pink wants to attack him because his Ukraine support isn’t anti-war? I’m anti war. In particular I’m anti the war that Russia started by invading Ukraine. Anti war doesn’t mean just letting the bad guy do whatever they want. If so, then anti-war is pro tyranny, because they always let the aggressor invade.
One of the things that made me really like Sanders when he was first campaigning for president was when I looked up his record on American war and he had a voting record that tended to follow a quote from him that amounted to something like (paraphrasing), “War should be the last resort, but if a war is started, we need to see it fully see it through.”
It’s not like siding with Ukraine and getting into that conflict is supporting warfare. It’s seeking to prevent warmongers from profiting off a senseless war. The idea that abandoning Ukraine to just be invaded and allowing Russia to get whatever they want by force is an, “Anti-war,” stance is fucking absurd.
The left has always had its share of morons.
Well-meaning morons, but morons nonetheless.
The issue is that the centrist and right wing media latch on to the narrative of these fringe weirdos and pretend that they represent the entirety of the left wing, even though there are WAY MORE lefties who find them disdainful.
The left loves nothing more than to bicker over ideological purity.
The right falls in line
False narrative.
We have less than a dozen morons here. They don’t represent anyone but themselves.
Meanwhile we have entire factions of the Republican party at war with themselves from the Lincoln Project to the infighting in the House just this week.
The issue with any negotiated settlement is that how do you trust Russia to hold up its end of the bargain after 2014? They’ve shown that international agreements mean sweet F.A. to them if it gets in the way of their goals.
The only way we get out of this in the long term to push Russia out of Ukraine, and force an unconditional Russian surrender. That means taking back the Donbas region; that means taking back Crimea.
but he should also be calling for a negotiated end to this brutal war
Bernie is smart enough to know that you can’t reliably negotiate with someone as untrustworthy as Putin.
Putin has lied to the world more than enough times that nobody should trust any potential negotiation he is involved in.
Because Bernie’s a lukewarm progressive at best nowadays and he’s incapable of actually influencing policy. The Democratic party is stuck in a rut caused by decades of neoliberal policy (which, for example, is why Clinton got so many resources during the Democrat primaries) and refuses to even consider a more radical alternative.
Voting isn’t working to actually institute change in America. Either the country needs to push more power down to the states, or it needs complete electoral reform to remove the FPTP system that got America into this mess.
Bernie voted for the bombing of Yugoslavia, he is not a “solid progressive”
Yugoslavia was invading Kosovo and commiting ethnic cleansing of Albanians at the time. Agree or disagree with how it was executed, it fits with the idea that he opposes the aggressors in war
Most of the ethnic cleansing happened as a result of the war. The intervention lead to an intensification of ethnic conflict.
THAT’S the war they choose to protest?
Presumably, antiwar protestors protest every war. Basically, a return to WW2 America’s policy of non-intervention.
Turns out being anti-war protesters means they’re ANTI WAR.
What do you want them to do? Raise funds to send some missles over?
I guess Ukraine could just use hopes and prayers to get Putin out of their front yard.
I’m pretty sure that most of the solid anti-war protestors would expect Ukraine to just accept Russian territorial demands, up to and including complete annexation.
It turns into a reductio ad absurdum pretty quickly though. Putin didn’t seem to return Crimea or the occupied regions of Donbass and Luhansk when asked politely. Not even when asked sternly. Indeed, it would seem that when all he faced was stern disapproval he decided to come back for more.
There is no doubt in my mind that supporting Ukraine now is stopping more Russian aggression later. Besides, Putin can end this war any time. Just go back to the original borders. The only reason not to is his yearning for Imperial glory. The irony being that many of these anti-war protestors would probably proclaim themselves anti-colonialists.
Wouldn’t providing Ukraine with more weapons extend the war? Their latest offensive shows they’re running on fumes.
We’ve sent billions to Ukraine, seems to only have ended in more dead people and little progress.
I have never thought of the usa helping ukraine because they are interested in ukranian peoples lives. I see them fighting because gaining an ally with great resources and an excellent geographic position is important to maintain power.
They are also testing the new way of running a war between first world armies.
Perhaps I’m wrong but this war benefits american interests beyond being world police.
No involvement other than the thirty-odd years of provocation since the end of the cold war.
C.J. Polychroniou, Dec. 23, 2021: Chomsky: Outdated US Cold War Policy Worsens Ongoing Russia-Ukraine Conflict
That totally justifies killing 50 people in a grocery store. Why would the US force Putin to do this?
Peace in Ukraine? Tell that to all the civilians in Bucha and other places that have bullets in their back, got executed against buildings, or were tied up and shot in the back of the head.
The russians even execute their own men with sledgehammers for being POWs. It’s like walking in to Sandy Hook mid-massacre and asking “Why can’t we all just be friends?” until you catch some 5.56 like an idiot.
Ukraine should invite these people out to the front to see what it’s like, and talk to the civilians in recently liberated areas. Have them talk to the survivors and families of Bucha.
Telling the Ukrainans to compromise will never work. The russians will continue to kidnap their children and push Ukrainans into the sea unless they secure all of their land. And even then, they’ll be forced into an Israel-like state of constant bombardment from their neighbors.
It’s a shitty fucking deal. But the russian army and government are monsters. And the peace protestors that MTG cheers on aren’t on the side of the Ukrainians. Surrendering is not peace to the Russians. It’s capitulation.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Eleven antiwar protesters were arrested Wednesday after they occupied the office of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Capitol Hill to demand the senator support efforts at diplomacy over sending further U.S. aid, such as weapons, to Ukraine.
Capitol Police arrested the 11 people inside the Dirksen Senate Office Building under a D.C. code that prohibits crowding, obstructing or incommoding, a Capitol Police spokesperson said.
The code is often cited when arresting protesters during peaceful planned acts of civil disobedience.
“Yes, Bernie should condemn the Russian invasion, but he should also be calling for a negotiated end to this brutal war,” Crystal Zevon, from Barnet, Vt., said in the news release.
A spokesperson for Sanders said the senator’s chief of staff, foreign policy adviser and Vermont state director met with Vermonters who were concerned about the war.
“The U.S. should support a just peace in Ukraine, based on the principles of territorial integrity, sovereignty, and international law,” Sanders wrote in the letter.
The original article contains 244 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 34%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Supporting Ukraine IS anti-war.
It’s a war of aggression and the fastest and ONLY way to stop such a war is to stop the aggressor. Appeasement simply allows the aggressor to continue perpetuating or expanding their war aims.
The waste is trickling arms to them instead of surging it. We need decisive Ukrainian victory to spare the lives of Ukrainians and Russians from Putin’s war.
