Israel was taken by surprise by the most ambitious operation Hamas has ever launched from Gaza.
The scale of what’s been happening is unprecedented. Hamas breached the wire that separates Gaza from Israel in multiple places in the most serious cross-border attack Israel has faced in more than a generation.
It came a day after the 50th anniversary of the surprise attack by Egypt and Syria in 1973 that started a major Middle East war. The significance of the date will not have been lost on the Hamas leadership.
Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country is at war and will exact a heavy price from its enemies.
Videos and photos of dead Israelis, civilians as well as soldiers, are all over social media.
I mean, Israel kind of threw the first stone and built the first wall
They came for the civilians, they shot families in their homes, literal children and babies. No stone provoked this.
The Israeli settlers did this first in the forties when they invaded and colonized Palestine, indiscriminate violence was their M.O., so yes the first stone was thrown two generations ago. Not excusing the violence today, but it is not unexpected nor unprecedented by either side of this conflict.
how many times has palestine been offered land for peace? Many - In 1948, 1967 and even later there were offers which mentioned connecting palestine and gaza. all the times, palestinians refused it.
Hence why I am under the impression that they are more responsible for this conflict.
Jewish subjects under the British mandate rebelled against the British government and the Nazi-aligned muftis. This, after decades of oppression against the Jews of the colony; finally, they declared their independence.
A lot of people are excusing, and in many cases celebrating the violence today. They love to see Jews die. This is nothing new.
That area has been under conflict for 1,000s of years claiming that it’s the Palestinians land is very short sided.
Their settlers have been entering the Al Aqsa Mosque en masse for the past couple weeks, trying to pray, which even the Israeli government says they’re not supposed to do.
It belonged to the British before WW2. After the war, where Israel was created after 6,000,000 Jewish people (among other “undesirable” groups, such as gay people) were summarily executed by the nazis, it fell under immediately attack from all of its neighbors in 1947. Two years after six million were executed.
The Arab League members Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq refused to accept the UN partition plan and proclaimed the right of self-determination for the Arabs across the whole of Palestine. The Arab states marched their forces into what had, until the previous day, been the British Mandate for Palestine, starting the first Arab–Israeli War. After an initial loss of territory by the Jewish state, the tide turned in the Israelis’ favour and they pushed the Arab armies back beyond the borders of the proposed Arab state
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
While it doesn’t excuse brutal repression, I don’t think they are ever going to back down. Any time they do, everyone seems to execute all of them in pogroms.
I keep popping into these threads just to check, and not one of those “private property is theft you can’t own land” people that are so prevalent in the rest of lemmy’s threads has brought this up yet. Seemingly, they do in fact think that either israel or palestine can claim “true” ownership of said land, due to this or that reason.
Tangentially related at best I know, I just find that pretty interesting.
Israel and Palestine are both countries. Private ownership does not factor into the equation. If you get into the weeds, part of the dispute is a claim of private property rights that predate Israel. But even that duspute could be viewed through the lense of collective rights.
Interesting, so those people think that “states” can own the land? This distinction seems odd to me, one would think that if “land cannot be owned” as is the typical assertion, it wouldn’t matter if a state or an individual is doing the “owning,” it “can’t be done.”
“The state” is distinct from “the people,” as well, unless either of these states (Israel or Palestine) are actually marxist and have abolished “the state,” then one could make the argument that “the people” have become “the state,” however then the argument could also be made that there is no “state” to speak of that could do the land owning. And as far as I’m aware, neither “state” is that.
Technically Palestine isn’t considered an official state cuz of the 1948 treaty/ agreement.
I’m not going to disagree with you, but I am going to push back on your theatrics. You obviously know that nations exert sovereignty over land. You imply as much by your criticism of private property.
You use a lot of quotes to imply these ideas are foreign and odd to you. Even if you disagree, at least have the courtesy of intellectual honesty.
Everyone choosing a side between Palestine and Israel, but I’m going to take the mega unpopular stance of fuck both these people. Fuck the fundamentalist followers of Abraham, no matter what branch.
They would visit great violence on you in the name of their god if they had the chance. They are murderously self-righteous.
Which side should you support? Maybe the only side actually facing genocide.
Israel is kettling Palestine. Palestine has no option but to fight back against israels apartheid.
Both sides say they want to eradicate the other but only Israel is actually doing genocide.
I get it. if I was born in Palestine I’d fight too. But if I went to Palestine in the body I currently inhabit, I’d be raped and stoned in the streets for the way I dress.
I’ve seen videos of children of both cultures calmly telling tourists they should die, that god will kill them, that the children themselves would kill them if they could. The Israeli children are dressed nicer, but the raw hatred is the same. Both cultures suckle their children on self-righteousness. On stories of being ‘gods chosen’. If their cultures grow and succeed they wont care that you helped, they’ll use their power to subjugate you to their god all the same. Because they’re ‘special’
You keep talking about rhetoric. Now do reality. Who is being exterminated?
Hint it’s not the Jews this time.
Calling this a religious war completely misses the socioeconomic context. Palestine is extremely poor, but they’ve also been systematically oppressed, had their homes stolen from them, had their rights ripped away, and are treated as basically subhuman.
Religion is the power that’s organizing revolutionaries, but it’s not the power that’s creating revolutionaries.
I think calling it a socioeconomic war strips away all the context of the last 100ish years. These groups are fighting over who gets Jerusalem, because they believe it’s holy. The socioeconomic conditions in Palestine are the result of a long holy war that they are losing. Tell me I’m wrong.
Yeah I’m with you here.
Seems so strange that two sects of the same religion would commit horrid acts of violence against each other, against children, all because at some point some dude may have said some different shit than some other dude at a place like 60 miles away.
I also don’t get the side picking. This attack was violent and horrible, but does that wipe away the decades of horrible shit Isreal has done? Seems like two toxic groups are doing toxic shit at each other.
I only feel sorry for the innocent people caught in the cross fire.
They are too similar, so they must go out of the way to villainize and demonize the “other” lest people not feel like they are 100% in the right. Something similar to you but not you might make the regulars of society realize the invisible lines and honestly they don’t really want to think about it anyways. Us vs them and the more alike the mora adamant the existence of differences.
I genuinely believe Hamas got through because the Israeli military got lazy and complacent.
I think it’s an issue with this generation. They were caught with their pants down, literally.
Well, they attacked on Simchat Torah (and Shabbat). Simchat Torah is one of our relatively few Happy holidays, and it’s a day where Jews are not supposed to do any work, use fire, use electricity, etc. but are in fact supposed to be celebrating in synagogue.
This is not the first time they’ve attacked on a Jewish holy day. It’s entirely intentional.
I mean, letting your guard down on a holy day isn’t really an excuse.
This is not the first time they’ve attacked on a Jewish holy day. It’s entirely intentional.
Then… they should’ve been better prepared for this? I don’t get your point.
Yeah, they should have, and to some extent they were. I don’t think they “let their guard down,” but I’m not in the IDF, I don’t know how many people take the day off on shabbat or on simchat torah, I’m just saying that this was very intentional timing. It is, to the day, the 50 year anniversary of the Yom Kippur war.
It’s entirely intentional
I mean of course it is. Anyone involved in a war would choose to time their attacks at the time they think it’s going to be most effective; it would be silly to suggest otherwise.
It’s certainly sad that civilians keep dying in this, but when one side is arguably committing a genocide against the other, and not-even-arguably is an apartheid state subjugating the other side, it’s very hard to side with the apartheiders.
lol what?
“Genocide” is really hard to argue when their population keeps going up and most of the people being killed are active enemy combattants who target civilians.
“Apartheid” is hard to argue for a totally egalitarian state on the basis that it has borders. Oh no! The US is engaged in Apartheid with Mexico! The Apartheid lie is very easy to argue against, because there’s no basis for it.
“Blindsides” give me a break. You are telling me one of the most intelligence heavy militaries in the world couldn’t possibly have seen this coming? Israel let this happen to justify wiping out hamas for good.
