0 points

Oh man, staple crops are subsidized waaaaaayyy more heavily than beef. Some of this grain goes to the beef industry as feed, so it is indirectly supported by taxes. But the reality is that the soy, barley, beans, or whatever else is in that veggie burger are subsidized directly and more extensively.

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39 points

Where in the WORLD did you hear that bit of propaganda?

https://agriculturefairnessalliance.org/news/2020-farm-subsidies/

https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf

https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/02/usda-livestock-subsidies-near-50-billion-ewg-analysis-finds

I can’t even find any source saying more money is spent on any crop than on beef. It seems like it’s totally made up. The numbers vary because it’s hard to pin down, but I can’t find a source saying anything besides “most subsidiaries go towards beef and dairy”

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-2 points

… The very first link you provided shows a chart that has more assistance going to corn than beef, more going to soy than dairy and more going to wheat then pigs.

https://agriculturefairnessalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2020bdcat-1320x743.png

???

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33 points

I think you should read more carefully what that chart is showing.

Corn for example is purple and gray mostly.

Purple = live stock feed gray = biodiesel

Soy is mostly purple, so most of it goes towards feeding live stock.

So most of the subsidiary is just being spent to make it cheaper to raise live stock.

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2 points

Pigs and chickens don’t eat air, you know.

70% of US soy becomes animal feed. Some of the rest is used industrially, or becomes biodisel. Relatively little US soy becomes soy sauce, tofu, etc.

Soy subsidies, in practice, mostly function as a chicken and pork subsidy.

You’ll notice that we heavily subsidize animal feed crops like corn and soy, and spend much less money subsidizing fruits and veggies, nuts, and other legumes like black beans or lentils.

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18 points

I don’t want to speak for them, but one can interpret crops subsidized for the purposes of livestock feed AS a subsidy for livestock. If you look at the sum of the purple sections (livestock and feed), it’s the largest.

But you are right: buddy’s own chart does show a larger direct subsidy for corn than direct subsidy for beef.

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29 points
*

Many of those types of crops used for feed aren’t really aligned all that well. Corn for instance isn’t going used so heavily in a plant-based diet as it is subsidized (corn is the most subsidized crop in the US). There is also separate food-grade and feed-grade soybeans. 90% of US soy production is going to feed (and not to mention a good portion of the other 10% is going to soybean oil which is not super helpful for a plant-based meat)

90% of U.S. soybeans produced are used as a high-quality protein source for animal feed

https://soygrowers.com/key-issues-initiatives/key-issues/other/animal-ag/

Further, they are still getting massive amounts of direct subsidies

The Department of Agriculture has spent almost $50 billion in subsidies for livestock operators since 1995, according to an EWG analysis.

By contrast, since 2018 the USDA has spent less than $30 million to support plant-based and other alternative proteins that may produce fewer greenhouse gases and may require less land than livestock.

https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/02/usda-livestock-subsidies-near-50-billion-ewg-analysis-finds

Also worth mentioning that beans are not particularly highly subsidized unless you are counting soybeans mentioned earlier.

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-8 points
*

Don’t give a fuck. Tax the rich, then we can worry about what I eat.

Veganism is class warfare.

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1 point

I don’t think you understand what class warfare is.

The fact that it’s co-opted by rich people as trying to convince you that environmental disasters they cause is your problem doesn’t change any points made by actual vegans, or the fact that it’s far far cheaper. Even with all the subsidies given out, a pound of black beans/lentils has more calories/protein than a pound of beef, and will cost 1/5 the price. Sure if I want to splurge and buy a premade veggie burger it’s more expensive, but generally it’s just way more affordable.

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7 points
*

I think you’re ignoring the general capacity for vegans to maintain nutritionally complete diets without supplements.

And last time I checked, the rich don’t concern themselves with the cost of nutrition. You’re so deep in the class warfare you can’t even see the front lines.

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-1 points

B12 is the only thing, and we can buy food that reinforced with it so no big deal. Many cereals have it added, and this can not be overstated, it’s the only thing that is problematic for vegans naturally. I’m not even a vegan, but B12 is added to all sorts of foods these days.

Also if that’s the case, then eating meat is class warfare. While people are starving, we are growing food to feed to live stock, to get a food people think tastes better. For every 1000 calories of food fed to cattle, you’ll get less than 100 calories of meat. There is not enough land on the planet for every person to eat meat the way folks in the US do.

https://www.globalagriculture.org/report-topics/meat-and-animal-feed.html#:~:text=Nearly 60%25 of the world’s,kilometres of land to produce. "Nearly 60% of the world’s agricultural land is used for beef production, yet beef accounts for less than 2% of the calories that are consumed throughout the world. "

That 60% is counting all the corn and soy agriculture that is fed straight to beef. The world is not big enough for humans to eat as much as meat as people do. As a delicacy? Sure. But eating it every day? Multiple meals? Part of the world will always starve if we do. There is nothing in meat that we can’t get in other ways, not a single thing. So in all honesty if we want a stable world, we will need to figure out our addiction to meat.

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-25 points

Or vegans are more affluent and locked in so the take what they can get.

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1 point

No, it’s the first one.

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26 points

Americans earning less than $30,000 annually are more likely to identify as vegetarian. Nine percent of this group say they are vegetarian, a higher percentage than is true of Americans in the two higher-income groups. Differences in levels of veganism among these three groups are not statistically significant.

Gallop poll

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20 points

That’s me, involuntarily vegetarian, inveg?

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15 points

When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they shall eat the rich become inveg

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3 points

So it’s just.abuse of the limited options for vegans. Sounds like a new burger chain in the making that offers same prices for everybody.

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-4 points

Yes I could stop eating a pound a day but keto and vegetarian don’t mix well

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16 points

Absolutely fucked up that your taxes go to supporting animal abuse whether you like it or not. Although, arguably worse is how many people don’t even give the animals’ suffering a second thought and just take the selfish path. Even fucking stupider is that chicken can be bought at the same price as tofu per kg. Like what the shit? Stop subsidising it. It’s environmentally destructive and incredibly immoral.

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17 points

I’ve always thought that vegan activists would be a lot more successful if they could end these meat subsidies, instead of harassing the public. If the price of meat triples no one is going to be eating meat regardless of their politics.

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-4 points

Forcing people to do something is easier than making them change wilfully. But people still should have the moral integrity to make the right choice regardless. Plus, people are so propagandised and indoctrinated by the industry from politicians and other bullshit that it would be an incredibly hard battle to fight.

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6 points

Change zoning laws so I can raise my own in my backyard other than just chickens. I have no problem raising and slaughtering my food. No need for factory farms.

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9 points

Yeah but good luck getting anything passed when the GOP and all of the animal agriculture lobbying industry will be screaming from the rooftops about how everyone’s favorite foods will be more expensive.

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5 points

“THEY’RE TAKIN AWAY OUR BERGERS!”

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Memes

!memes@lemmy.ml

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