Which Linux? The installation process for most distributions these days is pretty simple.
Oh look. Yet another post demanding things from a volunteer-based community without actually volunteering their own time to work on solving the problem they’re insisting needs solving.
I’m sure these demands will totally make a difference in ways that putting their time into actually writing code wouldn’t.
I think it should be encouraged for non technical users to share their insights regarding UI/UX. People who are skilled in building applications often don’t have great skills in that area anyway. Actual UI/UX specialists are even harder to come by it seems.
The issue with this video is that it doesn’t bring in a ton of new insight. Issues regarding the variety of package management solutions are well know for example, and some distros are already solving this by having system packages and flatpaks managed by the same installer.
Correct. There are actual efforts going on to resolve those issues. Which begs the question, why post vague exhortations for people to “do something” about this, rather than focusing the efforts in places where it will make a difference?
This isn’t a post saying “hey, come to this project and pitch in.” This post is just bitching into the ether and then some folks getting butthurt when the pointless performative nonsense is called out for what it is.
Posts like this one happen on a near-daily basis all across FOSS mailing lists. It’s trivial to find numerous, often young, often inexperienced people who think their idea is the one that “fixes everything”. These people reason that everyone should fall over one another to put effort into their magical idea once they see the obviousness and correctness of the idea. Clearly, it’s simply incorrect to find fault in an obviously perfect idea such as this one.
It’s just so weird that literally none of the people with these amazing ideas are the ones doing a “git init” and getting started on the work of actually implementing their amazing ideas. Bizarre how so many spectacular, world-changing ideas need to be worked on by literally anyone BUT their champion. What a horrible world we must live in filled with nasty, evil people who simply won’t volunteer their personal time when we should feel so blessed with this holy relic of an idea.
This narrative is so childish that the only response it deserves is the one echoed by nearly the entire FOSS community, “Patches welcome!”
ROFL. Kiddo, I’ve been contributing to OSS for over two decades. The day I start caring about what non-contributors think is the day I stop writing code. Either show up with patches or STFU.
By that logic I should demand to get payed for testing your “free” software in real environment
Don’t sit there being obtuse. One of the benefits of foss is that actual users help test the software and bring feedback to make it better
You just want to be thought of as special
Developers of software are a dime a dozen and becoming an outdated profession. Keep the smugness out of this otherwise. Good day
The fact that Linux still sucks for regular users after all this time is infuriating. What the hell have people even been working on all this time??
It doesn’t though. It’s just different and takes time to learn. Like if a PlayStation only user switched to Xbox or a Mac user switching to windows. It’s different. In my experience Mac isn’t “user friendly” because it does shit different. I took some time to learn it. Now it is
Yeaaahh, but does it though?
I’ve put loads of regular users on Linux and on average they have less issues than they had with windows
That is ignoring the installation. Linux install is download iso, burn it on USB, boot computer with said USB, run the install program, go through the 5-6 pages which takes about 15 minutes, reboot and the machine is done.
Windows 11 install is downloading ISO, burn it on USB, boot computer with said USB and then the boot up immet fails with this vague error. Spend a good hour on Internet searches to find that it’s some bios setting which is fine for Linux, but whatever. Make setting, reboot USB! Setup now crashes again on other gauge error. Spend another 4 hours on sraxhes only to find out that windows iso burning requires a special windows only burning program that will “fix” it and is totally not done on purpose to sabotage Linux users, but fine, were only 5 hours in and still have to start so boot up a VM in Linux, find that usb burner somewhere, download and install that, then download the iso again, burn it, dump it again in the machine and presto, er have an installer, yay!
Go through the pages, and more pages and more crap and install this sponsored content and watch ads and now you need an account at Microsoft and more pages and do you love me? Please let me know that you love me, more feedback because I’m Microsoft and I need feedback and now do you want these games that you hate, and you must install office you will love it even though you’d rather commit sepuku, and a fucking hour of clicking a thousand times later, windows is finally installed …?
Seriously, if I say that installing Linux was ten times easier than windows, it would be the understatement of the year.
In it’s general use, nobody will run into weird shit like they do on windows and to top it off, you got no issues with viruses, no ads nor spyware in the operating system itself, and shit just works.
Yeah, Linux has bugs, just like windows, but the experience is ten times better, I’ll die happily and proud on that hill
“shit just works” I’m sorry but you’re fucking high if you think shit just works on linux. Every problem is a rabbit hole of 3 new problems with 3 more new problems.
I am by no means saying windows is any good, or any better necessarily. But this “Linux works great and is easy to use” is a load of shit and I’m sick of hearing it.
In my experience a stable distribution is a “set and forget”, unless you start tinkering with it.
I have countless of users where I’ve installed something like Linux Mint and it’s been literally running for years without any issues. These users have no idea how to use a computer, except for logging in and opening the browser.
Obviously the more complex a setup, the more shit can go wrong.
The vast majority of people have no experience installing an OS and likely never will.
The typical user uses whatever is preinstalled when the get the hardware.
My father-in-law wrecked his windows pc with malware over and over so I bought him a Wow PC https://www.mywowcomputer.com/ and he loves it. I don’t think he has any idea its running linux.
How do updates work with WOW computers? Or does the software just never get updated? Or do you just update the computer for him every now and then? What distro is this using underneath?
The updates are automatic. They seem to have rolled their own desktop environment. Not sure which distro. The main selling point was that I don’t need to maintain it for him. I am registered as his “tech buddy” so they contact me if something needs to be done hands on. In 3 years no issues/calls so far.
From the website landing page :
New programs and updates are provided automatically for the life of your WOW! Computer.
From https://www.mywowcomputer.com/open-source/
Distro is based on tiny core
The source files can be found by following 3 links deep to https://www.telikin.com/source/ doesn’t look like they include their frontend though, which might be proprietary, idk.
(you lazy bastard /j)
Honestly I think the bigger barrier is the BIOS. The button to get to the boot menu is different on every motherboard.
My brother in Christ, do you think an average person knows what BIOS/boot menu are?
That’s what I’m saying. The OS installer can be super nice and intuitive, but the process of getting to that point, messing with the BIOS, is troublesome.
I know in the past there’s been tools that allowed you to install Linux from within Windows. That would be a great way to work around this problem, though I think there are certain limitations with that approach.
Didn’t watch the video… but the premise “The biggest barrier for the new Linux user isn’t the installer” is exactly why Microsoft is, sadly, dominating the end-user (not servers) market.
What Microsoft managed to do with OEMs is NOT to have an installer at all! People buy (or get, via their work) a computer and… use it. There is not installation step for the vast majority of people.
I’m not saying that’s good, only that strategy wise, if the single metric is adoption rate, no installer is a winning strategy.
Most people who go out and buy a computer doesn’t understand what an OS is. If Linux was standard when you bought a PC, it would be the dominating OS. I mean, you could switch the OS to Linux on the computers and I think most people wouldn’t realise when they buy it lol
Indeed, so my argument is that sure a “better” installer might change a small fraction of the marketshare, say 1%, but it’s not enough to change significantly, say 10% or even reach parity.
An interesting example is the Steam Deck coming with Linux installed. Sure there are few people who do (by choice) install Windows alongside Linux but AFAIK the vast majority do not. That’s IMHO particularly interesting on a topic, gaming, where Windows has been traditionally the #1 reason people picked a specific OS.
I think they would. I tried Linux again for the first time in 10+ years and kept running into issues like my sound would randomly die or change to headset, when I tried to update the video driver it hard- locked the system, etc. I just installed Ubuntu the other day and whenever it boots the monitor just goes into standby with no signal. It’s been nothing but trouble, and I have pretty normal hardware. Most people aren’t going to know or care how to deal with those problems. As far as Linux has come, it’s still not ready for widespread adoption by most people on the ‘it just works’ front.
TBH do you actually think that there’s some chance that nobody is testing these releases and this is happening to a massive number of people?
I’ve installed linux countless times on a SHITLOAD of computers and never faced any of these problems, realistically, you’re very unlucky, and these sorts of things happen with windows all the time too.
I’m not saying your issues don’t matter, but unless you have statistics that back you up, you can’t say “it just works” to either OS.
I’ve had more of an “It just works” experience with linux literally hundreds of times.
Same issue though. If manufacturers actually had linux preinstalled, they would ensure compatibility. This isn’t a windows/Linux problem, this is a manufacturer/default os problem.
I am amazed by what you say though. I’ve had 0 hardware problems installing Linux on many different machines in the past 5 years. All the incompatibility issues of old are gone by my perspective
I looked for a reasonable Linux laptop for my wife and either it was European (large shipping costs) or ridiculously marked up.
She just went with a windows laptop 🤷♀️
Even then those who have to installers don’t really have a good experience with distros of wide market share (narrowing to Linux distros only), especially with whatever fresh hell Calamares is. (It doesn’t even support LVM or just installation with specified mounts points if you already set up your partition layout!)
Seriously, I’ve had better experience with the installer Ubuntu Server uses.
It does “support” LVM, but with a wacky/hacky workaround and that’s a real shame !
Also, there is some talking on github on how they will probably completely drop LVM in the near futur… That’s not what someone should expect from a Linux installer!
Also, there is some talking on github on how they will probably completely drop LVM in the near futur… That’s not what someone should expect from a Linux installer!
It’s a shitshow. Looking at their repo’s issues list has lots of noise, but the worst of them is that the LVM issue has been open for over a year now. Sure, open source, anyone’s free to work on it by why would distros use such a feature incomplete installer?
Linux definitively does dominate the end user market. You just mean the end user desktop/laptop market.
I agree though that preinstallation is the biggest deal. The fact that people have to install Linux at all is the problem. The installer itself is already 100x better than the Windows one, but that’s not enough.
Not to mention it means manufacturers ensure all the hardware is compatible, drivers etc are installed and working, which is why windows users feel it works better.
If you mean unrootable Googled Android then I don’t consider that Linux. If you mean something else please clarify.
