- Exclude explicit software bugginess or missing features
- Include experiences or knock-on effects that may have arisen from (1)
- Comparisons to Reddit are ok. We know the reasons for the differences, but this is just about expressing yourself
Discovering communities is easily the #1 complaint, I don’t think it’s a technical issue, it feels mostly a conceptual issue with how everything works. I understand why duplicate communities exist because of how the Fediverse works, but in practice it’s pretty annoying to the users. For example I tried to look for an anime community just to see if there’s any discussion, but I had no idea where people were.
There’s anime@lemmy.ml, this looks like the most popular but it’s mostly repost bots. There’s anime@lemmy.world and ani_me@lemmy.world, both of which barely have users. There’s anime@kbin.social, which has some threads going on but few users.
Because of the amount of duplicates nobody knows where the users actually are. Since everyone’s confused, nobody participates because they feel like nobody else is going to see their content. On Reddit you had one definitive subreddit for each topic, on Lemmy it feels like a guessing game at times which one’s the right one.
We’re settling into communities more as time goes on (like how !moviesandtv@lemmy.film is the definitive movie/tv hub), but I think we’ve got a ways to go. If Lemmy wants to go more mainstream it needs to tackle this, whether it’s through multi-reddit style communities that combines feeds or some way to combine comments on crossposts or maybe some other way.
The Fediverse is rather different. I’m sure there will develop some sort of sign posting system to point out where to go but by its very nature, it will be subjective. Perhaps some sort of vivacity score could be used to judge how alive a community is and some way to show all communities across all instances in a say top 10 listing. In time communities with the same broad focus will develop a particular or set of focuses (foci, focae - not for me). Time will tell.
Lemmy is different to the walled gardens and it needs to mature and develop its own way of doing things. I love the fact that the largest instance went down with a bang for a while and the rest carried on fine. I feel for lemmy.world residents and admins - I’m a sysadmin myself. However that demonstrates the sheer power of the fediverse. I will be spinning up an instance eventually, once I’ve got the hang of using it and I run some quite important stuff at work.
Tools and memes will develop over time but make no mistake, the fediverse has hit its teens in life. What sort of adult we get will be interesting. We do need to keep it out of the hands of a single authority whilst still allowing civilized discussion, for a given value of civilized. Instances can refuse to peer with others so we can gradually develop networks that work for subsets of the human race. The tricky bit is enabling this to happen within earthly laws and boundaries. Governments hate decentralization for obvious reasons. Instead of Messrs Apple, Google, MS etc they potentially have to deal with me and you and the other n billion people on the planet!
Its just super unattractive to join. If I am thinking about joining a platform I want to know if there is content that is interesting to me. Now if I go to https://join-lemmy.org/ what do I see? It greets me with explanations of the Licensing, tells me all the programming languages and frameworks, shows me pictures of code and something about mod tools and of course immediately offers me to run my own server. None of that is even remotely interesting to me even now that I am a registered user. Not to mention that the design is questionable. Then it says “Join a server”. I am not here to join a server, I am here to join a platform. And if I click on that I am met with about 50 different instances, of which I have no idea what to choose and what implications my choice has.
The whole federation thing, the design, everything is just unintuitive and unattractive to join.
I agree that it is unclear to folks that Lemmy is not a platform and this causes frustration and disappointment for new users. It probably should be clearer on join-lemmy.org that this whole thing is just a bunch of servers talking to each other.
join-lemmy.org needs some serious work if it’s really what people are going to link when others ask about it; it’s really no wonder that we’ve mostly only amassed technical folks. I also think the default UI/UX could use a lot of work to bring it up to standards with other modern social sites. I wish that would be a priority for the devs, but I know they only have so much time to devote to things
I tried to solve this a tiny little bit by giving my own instance a clean and friendly frontpage, but I think I still need to do more work to attract people who aren’t fedi-inclined.
I like that front page, nice for a ‘smaller instance’ that has a specific target. I should steal it for no.lastname.nz
Multiple communities with the same theme in diverse servers mean lots of repeated information in my home page.
I find hard to find new niche communities. All is all, the common denominator. My home is what I already have subscribed. Local instance communities are there. But I don know a good way to get offended content from communities outside of those categories.
There’s a few different community browsers:
It’s still got the problem of being repetitive.
IMO, moderators of communities need to merge their communities. Identify which community is bigger and quite frankly push users to just use that one, to reduce the ambiguity over which one to use. The software ideally would also have an officially supported way to just close your community and transfer everyone’s subscriptions to a different one, so that we don’t have these duplicates confusingly still showing up in the listings.
I personally did this. I tried to create and promote a community I thought I was the first to make. When I learned it actually already existed (and just… didn’t show up in search because of course not), I shuttered the one I made and pointed it at the other one.
What’s bizarre to me is that the Android community even did switch to a different one… and then switched back to having two?? It’s weird and I don’t understand why they did it.
It’s a solution, but I don’t like it.
1.- It’s less resilient. If (more like when) one server goes down it could take the only community in a topic with it. 2.- If the moderators for the community of your interest are kind of dickwads, or absent, or malicious, you have no alternative. 3.- Federation can create weird problems. If your account instance is not the community’s one, you could be effectively banned, without doing anything wrong. 4.- Creates a perverse incentive for using the biggest instance you can for both creating communities and users. Some of the bigger Lemmy instances already are under heavy load and having problems to stay online. Imagine if we discourage using small instances.
Some mechanisms to “merge” communities across servers would be cool addition. Every Android community in every server that still federates with each other lists every post in all of them. Moderators moderate the posts in their instance. Link repetition is the same as inside of one single community. If one of the composing communities moderator team doesn’t does it’s part it could be expelled from the composite. Like a soft de-federation.
Just rambling. It’s a complex problem.
It’s a solution, but I don’t like it.
1.- It’s less resilient. If (more like when) one server goes down it could take the only community in a topic with it.
2.- If the moderators for the community of your interest are kind of dickwads, or absent, or malicious, you have no alternative.
3.- Federation can create weird problems. If your account instance is not the community’s one, you could be effectively banned, without doing anything wrong.
4.- Creates a perverse incentive for using the biggest instance you can for both creating communities and users. Some of the bigger Lemmy instances already are under heavy load and having problems to stay online. Imagine if we discourage using small instances.
Some mechanisms to “merge” communities across servers would be cool addition. Every Android community in every server that still federates with each other lists every post in all of them. Moderators moderate the posts in their instance. Link repetition is the same as inside of one single community. If one of the composing communities moderator team doesn’t does it’s part it could be expelled from the composite. Like a soft de-federation.
Just rambling. It’s a complex problem.
- I feel like this one is an issue either way. Even if it doesn’t take out the entire community, taking out the largest community is pretty impactful. It worries me that the fediverse feels so fragile.
- I think that case is a perfectly valid one to create a new community over. I’m not saying there should never be duplicates, just that we shouldn’t have them without a reason.
- Yeaaaah, I think defederation should be handled better and admins need more granular options so that they don’t have to defederate except in the most extreme cases. The fact that some of the biggest instances can’t be seen by some other instances (or at least one other) is weird and worrisome.
- I don’t think this would be a reason to avoid smaller instances, but admittedly people will generally create communities on their instance. I don’t think you even can create a community on another instance? You have to have someone on that instance create it and set you as a mod.
- We already have a solution for this with tcp/ip with resiliency in the communication chain. Make the communities duplicated across servers and any server has a copy of the community.
- This is definitely an issue but maybe a mod would only be able to control via voting with other mods for that community across servers? Make it more democratic than autocratic? Mod actions should be public too. No working in the shadows allowed.
- You see this in gaming. People looking for interaction all swarm to the busy servers and you’ll see dozens of servers all barely in use. Maybe your login should be load balanced and redirected to low use servers.
Agree it isn’t simple. “We want control without control”
The “front page” of lemmy, either the local of the instance you’re on or the “all”, is pretty bad. Low quality, uninteresting, obscure, sometimes vaguely rude. News about small video games, hyper specific gripes, obscure memes, uninteresting articles with no comments. Compare that to reddit when it was good, which reliably emphasized the biggest world news stories, genuinely interesting user anecdotes or personal stories, academic knowledge (especially AskHistorians), videos or images that grip you, etc. I’m not sure what the issue is with lemmy’s front page. Is it an algorithm problem? Something to do with federation? Is the user base merely too small for now and this will improve on its own with more engagement?
It’s too bad because the “front page” is the user’s first taste of lemmy. Most users will browse without making an account for a while before finally making an account and subscribing to specific communities.
In general, I think lemmy is already great. There are starting to be lots of cool communities, and even if the quantity is lower, the quality seems to be higher.
The front page of Reddit is one of the places I’ve actively avoided. That’s the place where I’ll find everything that the rest of the world likes to see, but none of the stuff that I care about. I tend to be interested in strange niche topics, and my multireddits reflected that quite clearly. To me, the front page of Lemmy is about as boring as the front page of Reddit, so no big changes there.
Yeh for the last few years especially of my using Reddit I would only ever go directly to the 4-5 subs that I frequented. Never once went to the home page/“all”, or the new discover page or whatever it is.
For now I’m using All on here to try and find some communities to join, and which ones to block. I’d say in a few months I’ll just be using Subscribed.
In order to discover interesting places I just went to https://lemmyverse.net/communities and joined every community with an interesting name, such as science, technology, physics etc.
I strongly agree that it needs to improve. Besides the sorting algorithm issues, one issue is that “all” depends on what people on your instance have subscribed to. So small instances might not have much or have a very biased all. I think Lemmy should at least default to basically subscribing to the N biggest communities for all instances, purely to seed the “all” view.
As well, most instances should default to “all”, because “local” is usually going to be extremely limited and misleading. Defaulting to local will just make the fediverse look bad. New users aren’t going to realize they can switch to all. They’ll just think there’s barely any content and leave.
That’s not really what I was referring to. Sure it selects posts automatically but it’s not like it picks what it thinks a specific user is going to click on.
but it is just a simple vote count/time decay, no consideration given to what you have interacted with in the past, ie the “algorithm” on other platforms
Yes there is, and it’s not that different from reddit. The sorting algorithm is what they refer to. Eg, hot is some balance of time vs votes, which greatly favours newer posts (too new, IMO – posts it shows will typically no comments or maybe just one or two). Active favours high commenting rates and based on my observations, it seems to drop off around 2 days (too old, IMO – a considerable number of posts shown by this algorithm seem to be around the 2 day mark). The top and new algorithms are straightforward enough.
All the algorithms favour big communities. There’s a “best” algorithm in development, which would try to look at the top for each community and thus give smaller communities a chance. I can’t wait for that, because right now, you’ll rarely if ever see a small community hit the front page and it sucks bad.
As a general rule, the onboarding and discovery in the fediverse is pretty bloody terrible.
