52 points

Why is everything RISC-V some low power device, I want a workstation with PCIe 5.0 powered by RISC-V.

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37 points

Cause it’s immature and low power devices are easier

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7 points

What needs to be improved? The standards or manufacturing?

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15 points

I’d guess they’d need to figure out whatever apple did with it’s arm chips.
efficient use of many-cores and probably some fancy caching arrangement.

It’ll may also be a matter of financing to be able to afford (compete with intel, apple, amd, nvidia) to book the most advanced manufacturing for decent sized batches of more complex chips.

Once they have proven reliable core/chip designs , supporting more products and a growing market share, I imagine more financing doors will open.

I’d guess risc-v is mostly financed by industry consortia maybe involving some governments so it might not be about investor finance, but these funders will want to see progress towards their goals. If most of them want replacements for embedded low power arm chips, that’s what they’re going to prioritise over consumer / powerful standalone workstations.

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13 points
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2 points
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At a minimum they’ve got to design a wider issue. Current high-performance superscalar chips like the XuanTie 910 (what this laptop’s SoC are built around) are only triple-issue (3-wide superscalar), which gives a theoretical maximum of 3 ipc per core. (And even by RISC standards, RISC-V has pretty “small” instructions, so 3 ipc isn’t much compared to 3 ipc even on ARM. E.g., RISC-V does not have any comparison instructions, so comparisons need to be composed of at least a few more elementary instructions). As you widen the issue, that complicates the pipelining (and detecting pipeline hazards).

There’s also some speculation that people are going to have to move to macro-op fusion, instead of implementing the ISA directly. I don’t think anyone’s actually done that in production yet (the macro-op fusion paper everyone links to was just one research project at a university and I haven’t seen it done for real yet). If that happens, that’s going to complicate the core design quite a lot.

None of these things are insurmountable. They just take people and time.

I suspect manufacturing is probably a big obstacle, too, but I know quite a bit less about that side of things. I mean a lot of companies are already fabbing RISC-V using modern transistor technologies.

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1 point

That makes sense.

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21 points

I think that’s the whole point of all risc - it saves power over cisc but may take longer to compute some tasks.

That’d be why things like phones with limited batteries often prefer risc.

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6 points

That’s true for small and simple microcontrollers, but larger and more complicated ones can theoretically implement macro operation fusion in hardware to get similar benefits as CISC architectures

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1 point

It definitely could scale up. The question is who is willing to scale it up? It takes a lot less manpower, a lot less investment, and a lot less time to design a low-power core, which is why those have come to market first. Eventually someone’s going to make a beast of a RISC-V core, though.

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2 points

Who’s willing to scale it up? China probably

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17 points

milk-v is going to release a pretty powerful system, iirc i read it will be released in about 10 months, ventana also reportedly will release a server cpu in 2024.

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3 points

Given that sifive just effectively fired everyone, this might fall flat.

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1 point

That’s yet another example of why you should not believe everything you read online, see this .

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2 points

That’s the sort of thing I am interested in seeing, thanks! :)

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9 points

It takes time, as it all is under heavy development. Just since very recently there are risc v sbc available that can run linux - before it was pretty much microcontrollers only. Be patient :)

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1 point

That’s promising at least :)

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8 points

It’s probably what’s available without costing several kidneys.

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7 points

Risc-v is still 50% slower than an unisoc SOC.

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6 points

RISC-V is advancing pretty quickly. I imagine we’ll see desktop class CPUs within a decade.

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3 points
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There is the 64 core, 32-128GB DDR4 Milk-V Pioneer, but it uses PCIe 4.0

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1 point
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Me too. Hell, I’d settle for a multi-core RV64GC processor offered as a bare chip and socket since I’ve always wanted to give building a motherboard a try but, the dev systems available seem to have everything soldered :(

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1 point

Even once the kinks are worked out, the primary market for RISC-V will be low-end. It’s a FOSS (FOSH?) upgrade path from 8-bit and 16-bit ISAs.

There will be no reason for embedded systems to use ARM.

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1 point

Initial market, absolutely. It’s already there at this point. Low power 32-bit ARM SoC MCUs have largely replaced the 8-bit and 16-bit AVR MCUs, as well as MIPS in new designs. They’ve just been priced so well for performance and relative cost savings on the software/firmware dev side (ex. Rust can run with its std library on Espressif chips, making development much quicker and easier).

With ARM licensing looking less and less tenable, more companies are also moving to RISC-V from it, especially if they have in-house chip architects. So, I also suspect that it will supplant ARM in such use cases - we’re already seeing such in hobbyist-oriented boards, including some that use a RISC-V processor as an ultra-low-power co-processor for beefier ARM multi-core SoCs.

That said, unless there’s government intervention to kill RISC-V, under the guise of chip-war (but really likely because of ARM “campaign contributions”), I suspect that we’ll have desktop-class machines sooner than later (before the end of the decade).

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2 points

I would’ve had my doubts, until Apple somehow made ARM competitive with x86. A trick they couldn’t pull off with PowerPC.

I guess linear speed barely ought to matter, these days, since parallelism is an order-of-magnitude improvement, and scales.

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16 points

Does the trackpoint work like an old IBM thinkpad? If so this would be a really neat computer.

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10 points

It’s called a nipple. And yes.

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10 points

I’ve always called it the clit

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6 points

My god, you’ve found it?!

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5 points

We call it the clito in France, I have one on my Lenovo keyboard

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4 points

Do you have one? The Thinkpad trackpoint was great but no other company that put a “nub/nipple” on their laptops was as good. I think IBM put a lot of effort into that device and whatever knockoffs Dell, HP etc were using were clumsy and uncomfortable in comparison.

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12 points

Are netbooks making a comeback?

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11 points
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7 points

Man, I hope. I haven’t had as much fun on a computer as I did with my eepc701.

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6 points
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2 points

Loved my netbook back in the day. put major hours into roblox on that bih

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7 points

Does RISC-V have security benefits since it is open source? Is it easier to detect hardware backdoors if it is used instead of x86 or ARM?

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8 points

RISC-V instruction set (ISA) is open source. But the actual implementation (microarchitecture) has no such obligations. And among the implementations that can run Linux, none (that I know) are open source designs.

With regards to hardware backdoors - no, closed source RISC-V implementations are not easier than x86 or ARM to audit for security.

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6 points
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I think the CPU chips themselves are closed source but the architecture is open under MIT so this means anyone can close them

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7 points

Does it run GNU/Linux?

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3 points

Yup they have an image based on Debian

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1 point

I need one of these right now.

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2 points

Debian supports risc-v

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