Was literally discussing this last night. China built a whole high speed rail network across its country for £300 billion and we’re £100 billion in and don’t even have a single train available. It’s actually insane.
The land cost alone for hs2 runs into the billions, it’s just very expensive to do.
Do you believe the land costs in France, Spain, Germany, China and Japan weren’t expensive?
China is not. The CCP can just seize the land and force you to accept a pittance in compensation.
You only mentioned china, where they don’t report on land costs because all land is state owned but yes I do believe land compensation is much less in china, not least because HS2 land compensation is significantly above market rate. Also; an authoritarian regime with only superficial regard for the health and well-being of their workers, that are paid almost nothing is certain to be cheaper. Suggesting otherwise is banal.
Edit to add Troll alert.
That’s not really comparable. China bulldozes through land with little regard for the societal or environmental impact. The UK is a place of natural beauty and has laws against doing that. It’s right that we have proper surveys and planning permissions needed for this sort of thing, in my opinion!
Even the chaotic Spanish have managed to build a decent high speed rail network. While they don’t have the population density of the south east of England, they seem to be much more organised. Perhaps it’s really Britain that’s chaotic, certainly when it comes to infrastructure projects that aren’t for cars?
Spain is basically empty outside of the larger cities, and property prices are often very low, so it is different.
The Netherlands is perhaps a better example. Very high population density, technical challenges due to a lot of reclaimed land, high property prices.
If they can manage it…
I don’t even know what to say to this. You have inherent biases and that’s fair, but you should try and address them internally rather than just posting them. To suggest that China doesn’t do proper surveys and just bulldozes through land without regard for societal or environmental impact sounds racist AF.
France has 3000 kilometres of high speed rail compared to our 100.
I’ve worked as a civil engineering consultant in china, comparing how the deliver a major rail project to here in the uk is frankly moronic. It isn’t bias, it’s fact
Let’s put it this way: Any HS2 that is not connected to the HS1 is a stupid idea from the beginning.
Do you really imagine people coming from the EU wanting to drag all their stuff through the f-ing Tube to reach the connecting bullet train to the north? Heck, this is already a pain in the ass with the crappy normal trains in the UK. I once needed to go from Hastings to Cambridge by train, and vividly remember having to walk between Kings Cross and Kings Cross Themselink (and back) with a load of luggage and a handicapped wife.
The HS1-HS2 link would’ve been great, had HS1 been built to terminate at the underground King’s Cross station that never ended up being built. As is it is, it doesn’t really go together nicely. But also the bigger problem is with the immigration and security theatre required to go through the tunnel, meaning you either have to change trains or have all of that at every other station that the trains would call at in the UK, which isn’t really feasible. If we could reduce (or remove) these requirements that would be great but we’ve been moving in the opposite direction.
That said, the main point of HS2 is to move the existing long distance services (which don’t mesh well with slower trains, reducing capacity) off of our existing mainlines, creating a lot of capacity for more local and freight services across the country.
Wheelchair = luggage trolley.
The looks I’d get trolleying around my dear mum in her chair, absolutely laden with luggage or bags. I can only assume people thought I was some kind of monster doing that to an elderly lady, when in actual fact she was the one who would buy too much or insist on carrying it all.
Not that this would have helped in your case. IME trains are not wheelchair accessible. In theory they are, but when you turn up on the day, the lift’s not working or you need to take 5 sets of stairs to get a connection, so that you end up having to take another train to a different station in the hope of their lift actually working, to take a cab to the station you were just at. Never again, basically.
@Noit Funny how we never see the same reports for motorways — that do exactly the same thing!
All sorts of standards are being applied to HS2 that don’t get applied to a road that length, from cost per mile, to blowouts, to land acquisition, to animal habitat, to community consultation … and just general media scrutiny.
We have one high speed rail link already, HS1. It goes from London to the channel tunnel.
This article is about HS2, that would go north.
@vext01 Perhaps what I mean is that the British are *now* unable to build projects of scale
Do they mean unachievable for the budget?
