this is my first comment here, just wanted to say that it’s so nice to find a corner of the internet where i can be an openly vegan communist and vibe with similar ppl. I’m so tired of tiptoeing around “based” carnists that go full chud once you eat a veggie burger in front of them or ask them to not be speciesist. sorry for the mushy comment but ty yall 😭
Unfortunately we have those people here too. But yeah, the fact that like 30% of people here won’t go full chud against vegans is an improvement
Carnists should be baited, and when they take the bait they should be [redacted]
Welcome, and sorry for the same kinds of comments made by supposed comrades in this thread
Veganism is a “chronic disease”?? Or carnism? I hope you mean carnism is the disease.
!vegan@hexbear.net welcomes u!
the meme: “you’re just lazy, right?”
the comments: “how dare you call me lazy, I actually enjoy hurting others”
I’m starting to think the problem for a lot of people is that they just flat out don’t know how to cook vegetarian/vegan dishes.
I’m thinking a lot of them are imaging some kind of hypothetical “cooked to perfection” meat dish with lots of spices and sauce vs like…cold, uncooked beans straight out of the can.
I’m not vegan, but like…it isn’t hard to prepare a nice tasting vegan meal, going vegan doesn’t mean a person has to live a spartan culinary existence where food is for bland sustenance and nothing else.
This is my view on healthy eating in general. There needs to be some genuine attempt to educate people on cooking, and materials should be subsidized at worst. I was once arguing with a lib about the soda tax shit, and they kept saying how people should know how to eat healthier and grow produce and cook it, and I was trying so patiently to explain that raising prices from people in food deserts is not how you do that. Maybe start with regulating what companies can put IN food.
Absolutely, a huge amount of it is food culture. I remember seeing advice an reddit to do rule of thirds on your plate and I realized how limiting that is, and how much more difficult it’d be to make veggie meals. Unfortunately it’s the only way many people recognize a meal, and the jump from a heap of chicken on your plate to a heap of beans is much larger than the jump from a lentil curry with chicken to a lentil curry without.
I cant really empathize with animals like how i can people. I hit possums with my car on the way to work all the time (once a month or so). Its unavoidable because they charge into the road and its too windy to move out of the way usually.
If i hit even one person id never live with the guilt and quit my job. Its unfair to expect 1 possum to equal 1 human. I understand you dont expect that. However, how many possums would i have to hit before it was enough for me to care much? It would have to be like when the cicadas come out - piles and piles of them for miles. I just value my husband having nice things more than the lives of those rodents, even though i like rodents a lot.
So the meat industry is basically a giant concentration camp of suffering, but im unsure if the suffering outweighs all the workers it employs, or evsn ths fact that they taste good.
At the same time, their suffering has value. Im excited for clone meat and i eat a lot of vegetables. It could easilly be that i cant empathize with them because of class consiousness similar to poor roman citizens not caring about the plight of slaves.
So, if veganism benefitted my class id be more enthusiastic in becoming a vegetarian instead of just using meat in moderation. It would have to be something about how me not eating meat or doing local activism for animals helps. I cant change society and me not buying meat wont actually help animals.
For example, my local activism was beneficial to people like me because it gave them a support network and community.
Liberals are always saying things like this. “We can’t get rid of the death camps because people work there”
Ok we can get those people to do other jobs
So the meat industry is basically a giant concentration camp of suffering, but im unsure if the suffering outweighs all the workers it employs, or evsn ths fact that they taste good.
it’s okay that sentient beings suffer because you think they taste good. you must realise how genuinely fucked up that thought is, right? what gives you any right to decide your favourite treat is more important than a life? animals feel pain. they have wants that aren’t purely instinctual. their right to autonomy is more important than your desire for treats or a paycheck for workers - paycheck that comes at a heavy price, mind you. a job that requires mass killing has negative psychological and sometimes even physical effects on people.
at the end of the day, we’re leftists because we believe that pushing suffering on the innocent is wrong. pigs, cows, chickens have done nothing to deserve death. buying their corpses to eat is completely out of step with the values communists and anarchists claim to hold.
My leftism is about better human social organisation for every human’s benefit and reduced suffering. Beyond the practicality of ensuring a sustainable planetary ecosystem, it has nothing to do with other animals.
im unsure if the suffering outweighs all the workers it employs, or evsn ths fact that they taste good.
The workers employed in that industry very often end up with PTSD because of all the horrors they experience every day. Stopping the support for the animal holocaust is the best way to help those fellow workers possibly find a better job in the processing of plant based food, possibly saving their lives.
And yes, the suffering of others absolutely outweighs 15 minutes of sensory entertainment, how is that even a question?
veganism benefitted my class id be more enthusiastic in becoming a vegetarian
My first point already explained why it benefits your class, but I will also add that a vegan diet is the single most impactful thing someone can do to reduce their carbon footprint. So, if your class will suffer from climte change (it will) then going vegan is a necessity.
And also this: Veggie-based diets could save 8 million lives by 2050 and cut global warming
My first point already explained why it benefits your class, but I will also add that a vegan diet is the single most impactful thing someone can do to reduce their carbon footprint. So, if your class will suffer from climte change (it will) then going vegan is a necessity.
the idea of the personal carbon footprint is propaganda created by BP to distract from real environmental issues, much like the idea of the litterbug was corporate propaganda created to distract from actually meaningful pollution by industry.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
So the meat industry is basically a giant concentration camp of suffering, but im unsure if the suffering outweighs all the workers it employs, or evsn ths fact that they taste good.
Very good utilitarian way of thinking you’re employing here, which can be used to justify everything else too I know slaves are suffering, but their suffering doesn’t outweigh the money they’re bringing to the empire, or even the fact that the shirt made from the cotton they picked is nice.
Thats what i was saying. It was the whole point. The question is if animals should be emoathized with in the same way historical slaves are.
I dont participate in online debate. Im more stating what i believe along with potential flaws in order to see if my mind can ever be changed. Its not really my job to convert people to how i think.
(Vegetarian here that only eats honey and eggs from a local farm but still feels bad about it) Western animal agriculture is bad, no doubt. I am totally convinced that a society which has animals as a part of a whole healthy environment in like a permaculture+animals sharing the space society can eat animal products and possibly even the animal in cases where it’s healthiest for the entirety of the society including animals (think here of removing a male lion to allow a healthier population in total, but for goats that have been milked but live normal and free/safe lives). This would likely be temporary before becoming unnecessary if we reach a point past scarcity of proteins/foods. Max Ajl talks about this often (though he can be a bit chuddy about it, he’s trying to protect pastoralists with it I think)
That seems really vague to me. A lot of things are bad for the environment.
I could see how it would be bad for the world, so the magical make the world vegan button would be pressed. I simpky see no reason to become vegan, or personally participate in any activism that helps animals.
I live in a very rural area with way too many becauss the local law makes hunting them illegal to punish rednecks because thats what progressive politicians waste their time on here - murals and attempts to ban hunting anything but deer. Nothing that actually helps people.
Possums are marsupials, the only marsupial native to North America, actually. Just a fun fact.
you guys know there’s a such thing as humane and carbon-negative pork right?
I would simply do photosynthesis
Idea for a bit: a vegan Objectivist who lets the trolley hit the pig because he wasn’t going to eat the pig anyway.
