“Dead language”
Dude it doesn’t count if you’re literally killing the language on purpose
It’s also not a dead language by any stretch of the imagination. Even latin isn’t technically a dead language since it is still used.
Imperialists calling something dead is often just wishful thinking.
A dead language is one that isn’t used by real people everyday, not a language some academics can still speak.
That’s why Welsh and Irish are basically considered dead to many because the native speakers are so few that it could disappear very easily.
Also who the fuck speaks Latin still? Does the papal city place in Italy even speak that during it’s day to do going ons?
That’s why Welsh and Irish are basically considered dead to many
Uh…no. As far as I know, none of these languages are dead. Irish is dying but it’s not dead yet. Welsh is thriving and is pretty much the only Celtic language being passed down the next generation consistently and has a vigorous community with a respectable size.
I think people call languages with very few native speakers “endangered languages”.
You know there are Welsh schools right? And that the Welsh government has two official languages, Welsh and English? And that all official documents have to be bilingual? I’ve heard people speaking Welsh to each other in Wales, and I know someone for whom Welsh is their first language.
Does that sound dead?
Technically, Latin is a dead language, but not an extinct language. It could (heavy emphasis on “could”) come back all of a sudden. That’s what happened to Hebrew.
Extinct languages aren’t even spoken by anyone anymore. Not even a single soul. Gone beyond the point of repair. Disappeared for good, like dinosaurs and dodo birds and megalodon.
“Just seen”
“Just saw” is accepted shorthand for “I/we just saw…” “I have seen…” is acceptable if you’re saying that you’ve watched a movie 27 times.
Even substituting in “I just have seen” in the OP doesn’t make grammatical sense to me.
The guy should probably worry more about his own English than other people’s Welsh.
“I’ve just seen Dave being kicked out by his missus” works. Maybe it’s regional because [I’ve] just seen the news/the results/the answers/Kelly all sound fine to my ear. But I am a bit of a cockney.
It would definitely be unusual in the various American Englishes that I’m familiar with. “Have seen” is present perfect, and it implies something ongoing (“I have seen The Birdcage over 100 times so far”). “Saw” is the simple past tense, as in “I saw The Birdcage again yesterday.”  It just strikes me very similarly to when a non-proficient English speaker misuses a contraction like “I would like to know what time it’s.”
And honestly, I think language science should be more descriptive than prescriptive in general, and I recognize and respect regional variations. “I seen her yesterday” is a dialect variant you’ll hear in some US regions.
It was really more about the irony.
Just registered on Lemmy at last to pitch in! “I’ve just xyz” is much more common in most Englishes than “I just xyz”, because the present perfect tense implies some connection to the present, hence “present perfect”, and is perfectly correct English. The author has simply omitted “I’ve”, which is common in colloquial speech. This is also common in Dutch, a closely related language that I speak every day as a second language, if that helps legitimise it for anyone: “net gezien” as shorthand for “ik heb net gezien”. In fact, while there are a number of problems with the post, none of them are (“none of them is” for the pedants) grammatical. I assume from the English in your post that it’s not your first language so hopefully this is more helpful than annoying.
For reference: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/grammar/online-grammar/present-perfect-simple-with-just-already-and-yet
Welcome!
While what you’ve said is correct, your application is, unfortunately, incorrect. Once again, the OP did not use the helping verb “have” in front of the pp form of the verb “to see,” which is required. If you would perform a simple search of similar posts in a microblogging format, you will discover that while there is a convention of treating the initial article as implied (“Heard the new Taylor Swift single - amazing!”), there is not a similar established pattern of eliding entire parts of a verb form.
Again, there are similar patterns in other vernaculars. African American Vernacular English (AAVE) in particular uses forms of verbs that differ from those of Standard American English (SAE). AAVE (as well as other English vernaculars such as in the south of Ireland)) use verb forms such as the habitual be (“Mama be doing laundry”) to indicate that the action is performed repeatedly.
In any case, SAE would prefer the standard past tense in this formulation, again with the subject “I” left as implied (“Saw that those nasty Welshmen are acting up again. Fsfafagafacaga!”). It is entirely possible that the author is using a non-standard English vernacular that is perfectly legitimate but with which O am unfamiliar. That’s fine, but it does not decrease the irony of their “Are language is English!!1) post.
And regarding your final sentence, “None of them are” is the more standard formulation in English because it refers to “a number of problems,” which is plural. The singular “none” is reserved for when the meaning is a single exception (“My choice is none of the above, implying that I get to make a single choice).
Hope that helps! Unlike most people, I like the Dutch!
“Just seen” is an example of a participle element of English tenses that doesn’t align with the formal rules of the English language but has become common colloquialism in many English dialects.
The correct tense concept to classify it under is past-present tense. Not past tence or present tence, as it’s talking about a past event from the perspective of the present.
Way to jump to conclusions.
They’re saying the English are killing the Welsh language, not that their grammar is killing English.
I am saying that if someone is going to be making a point about speaking the right language, a handwritten protest sign stating “Are language is English!! Speak it!!!” doesn’t have that winning feel xenophobes should aim for.
Typical unionist. Adores the kingdom but hates all the different cultures inside of it.
What a nice island you got there, sure would be a shame if someone were to create an artificial famine, innit?
As an Englishman , I disagree, most couldn’t give a flying fuck about whether the Welsh want to learn Welsh, only attention seeking wankers who like to stir up shit say shit like this. Fuck them
Ehm, no? Nobody gives a shit if you speak your region’s language as long as you don’t want to use it as an excuse to secede. Think of Galicians, Asturians and Valencians
Catalan and euskera are somehow secesionist languages? That’s exactly what I was talking about. By the way, valencian and catalan are the same language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valencian_language
dead language
If people learn it, and people use it, it is by definition not a dead language.
This is some colonialist BS.
Well Latin is a dead language, people do learn and use it. But there is no new words, or evolution of the language.
Not really, there is an office at the Vatican charged with maintaining orthodox Latin, and they are also responsible for neologisms for contemporary concepts, so that they can weigh in on cell phones, hot dogs, or weapons of mass destruction.
One example:
“hot pants” -> “brevíssimae bracae femíneae”
Resurrected Language might be a better way to put it, the Welsh that people speak today is mostly an academic construction (which also applies to French and Portuguese, that isn’t meant as an insult).
Proposal:
Force the English to learn Welsh and rename the English language to American
Welsh here. Not everyone speaks it, but that’s because the English (even as late at the 1950’s) used the school system to literally beat it out of us (look up the Welsh Not). Even with that concerted effort to force the language out, it’s growing again after a few generations have passed. Being from the south, I know relatively few people who speak it fluently, but I know exactly 0 people who would actually want it abolished.
My cousin is dating a guy who’s first language is welsh. His family live basically at the base of Snowdonia. He is fluent in English but welsh is definitely his preferred language. I thought he was a bit aloof when I first met him but he later explained he finds it hard to keep up with the conversation and be as witty and quick in English as he is in welsh, especially in a noisy pub. He’s in his early 30s and all his friends from home are bilingual but consider their native language welsh.
The language revival efforts in the British isles are honestly inspiring. In Scotland a lot of people are making sure their children are educated in Gaelic, even though they don’t speak a word themselves.
Not everyone speaks it, but that’s because the English (even as late at the 1950’s) used the school system to literally beat it out of Us
Seems like the typical British MO. Same thing happened with te Reo Maori in New Zealand.
If I had actually learnt/used the language then maybe I would feel less indifferent to it and have a connection to Welsh heritage. I don’t think it should be abolished at all but I might be tempted to make it optional rather than compulsory for practical reasons (I don’t hold that view strongly). Ideally we have more languages as compulsory.
Nah the national language is compulsory in pretty much every country.
Here in Germany we obviously have German classes, but also compulsory English and in many schools compulsory 2nd foreign language. For me this was the choice between french and Latin. Other regions have Dutch, Danish, polish, Italian or Spanish.
So, no hurt in making Welsh compulsory.
