This Southern California solar farm is using retired EV batteries for storing the power and then send to the grid when needed. This way the retired batteries can extend their usefulness for several…::A Southern California company is showing how repurposing EV batteries for stationary storage can extend their usefulness for several years.
Good idea but good luck to the people who will try to take the fire out
Edit: I’m not saying that it’s bad, of course renewable, solar, electric is good. But knowing how horrible electric vehicle fires are to put out, I don’t see a fire of piled up batteries being an easy challenge for firefighters
Batteries and by extension EVs have a much lower risk of catching fire than ICE cars. Stop repeating fossil fuel industry gaslighting.
Bring on electric grid storage but don’t delude yourself it’s all sunshine and rainbows. The dangers of lithium nickel cobalt fires and toxic chemical release is very serious with a weird cult like level of ignorance. The actual grid battery fires and subsequent poisioning that’s occurred recently without consideration for the downwind population and groundwater are raising some big red flags.
Current state procedure for putting out lithium nickel cobalt fires. Hazmat gear and let it burn out.
Lower risk yes, but also harder to put out yes, and also the comparison here isn’t about cars at all.
It still shouldn’t be an issue as long as you place the storage somewhere where the fire can be contained easily, then worst case the whole storage burns down but there wouldn’t be significant collateral damage.
Any energy storage device has risks. In this case the risk is higher, but so is the overall energy storage capability. If you store them off to the side in their own little building, there’s no real risk beyond loss of investment and environmental impacts.
Not to mention, firefighters now have tools to fight these types of fires.
Also since it’s in one place, you can build in detection and fire suppression measures.
Could be as simple as having the tools nearby (fire hydrant style), or as complex as automating the checks and suppression (cut off power, isolate the problem cells, spray em)
If these batteries are stable (ie only needs maintenance rarely) , is there a reason not to keep them in a closed, CO2 filled enclosure?
This is a way to get off gas as it’s used for reliability and voltage regulation. There’s a few locations running pilots with different energy storage techs like this. One of the main problems with integrating renewables is they aren’t dispatchable generation so you’re basically throwing unknowns in to the system. This is mediated through programs like demand response and load following with gas, but the goal of decommissioning gas and fossils entirely while still providing reliability is hampered because of this gap in capability. Renewables paired with storage would accommodate more less flexible renewables and SMRs, and allow for more electrification of the economy with less climate impact. More electric arc furnaces!
What an atrociously dangerous planned design.
- Poor design: Thermal runaway is a serious problem that this setup has a very high chance of occurring. When it occurs, not if, it will spread fast from one container to the next and it will not be able to be put out that is the current fire fighting procedure for the state.
- It is very dangerous because these old batteries produce a very toxic and dangerous compounds when in thermal runaway. Again firefighting procedures cover hazmat requirements and it’s well documented the dangerous compounds that are present especially in these older batteries.
Net result. It will create another unstoppable fire that will dump poisons into ground water and the air recklessly endangering anyone down wind.
Solutions not problems:
- Isolate each container in an empty dam that is able to be filled with super chilled salt water the moment a runaway begins.
- Design fire suppression and shutdown to protect residents and the grid. Keep personal onsite to monitor with the authority to immediately react to fire incidents.
Do you think personal safety, firefighting ability, and effects on the environment has informed the design of like… anything in the last 50 years?
“Faster to catch fire, faster to spread, faster to catastrophically fail, more dangerous to life and health, and worse for the environment when it does so” describes anything from modern house construction to vehicle manufacturing.
Priority one is “cheaper”, the rest is just noise.
They actually have not thought of that no. In fact there is a cult like level of ignorance that has already just caused a serious fire & toxic release with this exact same hair brain layout and design. That said the method of fire containment is very new out of the Netherlands I believe.
Imagine that box there gets hit by lightning.
I mean, okay, but how much of anything can get hit by lightning and not be a smoldering crater without proper grounding and such?
So like… do electric car owners just need to buy new batteries? That’s the most expensive part!
Sure… at roughly the same rate and/or lifespan as someone with a combustion powered car might need to rebuild their engine or transmission. It’s really not that big of a deal, and newer battery chemistries like the current LiFePO packs are continually getting longer and longer lived. BEV battery packs are already expected to last 10 to 20 years.
Sometimes, but not often. These are mostly 1st gen EV batteries, so they’re pretty old. It’s mentioned in the article that once capacity diminishes to the point of effecting range the old battery is replaced. Old units can be refurbished. These units could also be situations where the car surrounding the battery failed (accident, hail damage, etc) and they decided to scrap it and reclaim the battery.
Yeah, that’s the bit that makes me think there will be a shitload of people cut off from vehicle ownership by the electric revolution.
It’s time to end that stupid suburban sprawl, and make places walkable, cyclable, and have subsidised public transport. Because when the petrol age comes to an end, those people left out of the new one will revolt.
At one time, they didn’t last more than a few years, and needed expensive replacement. Newer batteries have better BMS controllers on them and last a lot longer. But any damage pretty much necessitates replacement. The batteries can probably be fixed but IDK if they can be put back into use in vehicles then. So there’s plenty of used batteries that can be upgraded to use for stationary storage. You can buy them all day long on certain websites or auctions. It’s a pretty popular thing for DIY solar.
When they’ve reached end of life for the car, they are still useful.
EVs require high energy density so they get replaced when they don’t store enough energy for their weight. However for grid storage, weight doesn’t really matter (at least not as much) so a battery with 80% of its original capacity is a good (and cheap) solution.
When the market is mature, it will good for car owners who need to replace their batteries because the old one still has value.
Think of it like phone batteries, you dont, but overtime, the wear level of the battery is lower than new, and if that range is less than what you need to dailu drive, then people will get their battery swapped.
Its one of the reasons why car companies were hesitent to make lithium ion batteries for EVs
The article mentions that they mostly use batteries from the Nissan Leaf and Honda Clarity. I’m not sure about the latter, but the Nissan Leaf does not have any kind of battery management system. That keeps the battery warm in winter and cool in summer, and helps it last a lot longer. Nearly every major EV on the market does this, but the Leaf is the big exception. It’s also the one car where you’ll see severe range degradation on an older model.
