A lot of earlier geek fandom movies were released ahead of its time. Scott Pilgrim vs. The World came out in 2010 and didn’t find its audience, if it had released 5 years later it would’ve been a smash hit.
I’d put Spawn in this category as well. While not without its issues I think it captures the spirit of the comic fairly well and is still worth a watch even 20-some years later. I still have no idea how Michael Jai White didn’t become a bigger action star…
Because they cut this scene from Kill Bill. Par II
[also, there’s a ridiculous number of Michaels involved in QT’s movies; Michael Parks, Michael Madsen…
I think it released at the perfect time as this was the era of 90s action heroes. The problem was they leaned so heavily on bad CGI that it aged super fast.
Other examples could be Mystery Men and Dredd. Great movies, didn’t land, feel topical now.
Dredd’s problem was it was marketed as “Dredd 3D” in 2012. Three years after Avatar when every movie had a 3d version and only trash movies like Piranha 3DD were still advertising it in their titles.
Maybe a controversial take… I like Snyder’s ending better than the book.
Ozymandius tricking Dr Manhattan into building a bomb that blows up NYC is a lot more grounded in possibility that a giant psychic squid.
They’re both products of their times. The squid made sense in a time where comic books weren’t as grounded as they are today.
Also a squid makes more sense when you actually foreshadow a squid. The movie would have had to shoehorn that in through the plot and that would have been a mess.
It was cleaner. Different medium, different capabilities.
I don’t see how foreshadowing improves anything. Ozy explaining his bizarre and horrible plan and then revealing it’s already happened is a wonderful moment. Knowing it’s going to happen before it does would ruin it.
Foreshadowing the squid is well done in the comics and does not change the reveal. You should read it if you haven’t.
The whole Dr Manhattan plan could’ve blown up at his face though if he took it personally and killed everyone.
I do kind of like the squid ending because it’s supposed to be something completely unexpected and unbelievable that governments would actually believe it’s an alien. They could’ve foreshadowed it a bit better but I like the weirdness of it.
I like the TV show fleshing out the squid thing more. I think the movie ending was fine for the time though.
I remember recommending the movie to people and being told “you should have warned me there was blue penis” by one person. And then he went on to say “blue penis” at random times when he saw me. I don’t know how he would have reacted if there was a giant alien psychic squid attack
Yeah, while the movie had its flaws, notably pacing, my wife and sister lost it at “big blue penis,” and I was like, “what? THAT was what you focused on?”
I still felt the movie was pretty true to the message and had some memorable scenes and lines.
“None of you seem to understand. I’m not locked in here with you. You’re locked in here with me!”
I saw that movie and recommended it, with a caveat. I said, “It’s a great movie, but there’s a lot of big blue schlong. If that’s a problem for you, you won’t enjoy it. If it isn’t, it’s a great show.”
The ending works a lot better, agreed. But most of the beginning and middle bits change the tone/framing/emphasis/etc to give the exact opposite meaning to what was originally intended. Biggest example I can think of is the opening battle between the Comedian and Ozymandias the mysterious assassin; in the graphic novel that fight is framed as a dying, bitter alcoholic well past his prime getting absolutely bodied in an unceremonious and fitting end to a despicable man. In the film, sure he loses in the end but it’s a much closer fight and he goes out in a blaze of glory, defiant to the end, quite literally a hero’s last stand. Snyder also does his best to make Rorschach look as cool as possible (while still being grungy and uncouth) instead of how he is in the graphic novel: psychotic, extremely antisocial, and borderline fascist. Again, the change to the ending was a good choice, but there were many other choices made that I personally completely disagree with
I’ve wondered what the reception to Starship Troopers would have been if it was released 10 years later in 2007, as the US was bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Instead it was released during the era of dumb action movies and was treated as such.
I was way too young and credulous to understand what starship troopers was doing. Other than feeling a little bad for the alien worm at the end i just watched it like an action movie.
Now that I’m a more experienced adult, it is overt in its commentary to the point it’s hard to believe i missed or the first time.
I use this lesson for myself when i find it hard to believe other people cannot see the propaganda that we are immersed in daily, or get a different message from a piece of media.
After all, I missed it too. I watched the same movie at two points in my life and saw two very different things. I think about that alot
To me the thing that made me go “how did I miss that” was a one armed man proudly proclaiming “the Army made me into the man I am today”
I use this lesson for myself when i find it hard to believe other people cannot see the propaganda that we are immersed in daily, or get a different message from a piece of media.
This is a very good take away from that experience. One of the worst things to assume is that you are any different.
Paul Verhoeven is such a mixed bag. You get inspired trash like Robocop and Starship Troopers together with actual trash like Showgirls and Hollow Man.
But I don’t agree that the timing would have made much of a difference. If anybody took more notice of the movie, it’d be the chuds who mistake the lampooning of fascism as glorification. I’ve been quoted Rasczak’s class lecture about force and democracy unironically more than once.
A friend of mine screens tender matches by asking potential dates about Starship Troopers or Fight Club. It’s hilarious bc the chuds think she’s chill af right up till she unmatches.
He made a movie about fascism when no one was taking about fascism or eternal wars or anything like that. This was the blissful period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terrorism. It was the time of kick back, turn your brain off, and watch Arnold blow shit up. Watch aliens blow up the Whitehouse. Starship Troopers completely mismatched the time.
There’s a book by John Steakley called Armor that reminds me a lot of Starship Troopers and really captures the feel of an embattled military operation.
Armor
I’m wondering if I read this. There are two points that I remember. First they were going through whatever device to another world and he gets a bad feeling and against protocol he readies his weapon before he goes through. And thus is one of the only survivors. The second part I remember is him or another person got snuck up on by one of the insects, and someone was bugging them imitating how a huge insect would sneak up on someone. Is that the book?
Yeah. Basically there’s this on going war, the Ant War, with any like alien creatures. There’s high casualty cost like in Starship Troopers and the main character is infantry. Most infantry only survive a couple drops but he’s done like 60 or something.
It’s in my queue to read again.
To reach out to the modern people, I really think that we need to move away from books. Attention spans are getting a shorter, and who the fuck has the time to read a book? I think we need media to update themselves for the times if they want to message to reach the largest audience possible
I read lots of books and, honestly, I often find them more compelling than most visual media. When I read a book I see the world and the characters in my imagination. When I remember books I read I remember the visuals from my imagination, not the body of that text.
I do like being able to share the experience through movies and shows with other people though.
I suppose being one of those old millennials I’m not really representative of that younger changing culture anymore.
True, Zack Snyder was failing to understand comics long before Disney was.
Mystery Men has entered the chat…
Fun trivia that Smash Mouth’s All Star was originally on the soundtrack for this movie and the music video features clips from Mystery Men, two years before Shrek.
the performances in that film are fantastic… actors don’t get enough credit for the work they do in silly films like this one, because Kinnear is great, Stiller is great, Geoffrey Rush is hilarious, Garofalo is awesome, Macy is obviously great, they’re all awesome…
Don’t forget about Mystery Team.