(not sure if this is the right community, sorry)
Hi, someone posted this on another server. I’d like to request we defederate with rammy.site and exploding-heads.com as well. I scrolled through some of their posts and comments and it’s full of ridiculous anti-left propaganda, for example a post where some liberal Florida family fleeing the state when some child protection laws got passed, implying liberals abuse children and won’t live in a state that doesn’t allow them to. Just take a look for yourself.
" Admins of Lemmy.ml please consider defederating from rammy.site it has been taken over by right wing malicious actors from exploding-heads.com and the admin is nowhere to be found.
It is imperative that you take action as soon as possible the users on rammy are using the site to spread their messages to a further audience, we must nip this in the bud. If you don’t believe me check the instance for yourself, you’ll see it dominated with bigoted right wing posts and spam communities."
Edit: So many commenters think this is about political opinions or disagreement. It’s not. If I said “Mixing bleach and ammonia is good for you” I bet some of you would call that a political disagreement.
I joined this instance because it doesn’t block/ defederate. Everyone can pick what they want to see cutting it off is stupid.
It’s a policy of the community. You really should read sdf.org faq. Best regards.
This is the closest thing I could find that was related, can you send me what you found?:
Any illegal activities which includes, but certainly isn’t limited to spamming, portflooding, portscanning, unauthorised connections to remote hosts and any sort of scam can really not be tolerated here. Why? Because there are many here on this system that can suffer from this sort of abuse. If you want to use SDF, you really have to care about this system and the people here. If you don’t want to care, then you really shouldn’t use this resource.
I did read the FAQ before asking this, I did not take it to mean it’s a policy of the server not to defederate.
I joined this instance because I wanted to learn, collaborate, and share tech- and art-related ideas in an environment not toxic like commercial social media that has been filled with bad actors. An environment more akin to the 1990s BBS systems where tech-misfits are free to be without being subjected to hate from those pushing anti-social philosophies.
If I am reading the situation wrong, I apologize.
The reason that I am not a member at beehaw was because they were overly wrapped up in concerns such as this one. I’m here for enjoyable chats with people, not to take sides in the latest macro-politics or causes or whatever lately is stirring the pot or making the winds blow. These things are fine and some people are interested in them, but I’m turned off by the idea of an instance that is particularly identified one way or another when I am not concerned with any of that.
What I’m looking for are kind souls that share an interest in technology and an instance that was widely federated so that a wide variety of my interest groups (music, weightloss, networking, ancient Stoicism) are available. That’s why I joined here. SDF has been around a long time and many who have enjoyed its offerings have held many different opinions and yet shared this resource peacefully.
I’m particularly turned off by people that want a silo with only the right causes, only the right thinking, only the right speech.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have management and protection of against those that are unkindly trolling or actively trying to do technical damage. Ban those actually doing evil. But if people of good cheer share different views kindky as neighbors and friends, I have no problem with that and don’t want to see that roped off.
Remember the two rules of FidoNet? “Don’t be excessively annoying. Don’t be easily annoyed.” That’s all I’m saying.
ancient Stoicism
Is there modern stoicism? And if so, how is it different?
You’re reading the situation wrong. Go to those instances and read what’s there, it’s not about free speech, it’s active disinformation campaigns and propaganda. I would feel the same if it was extreme leftist propaganda. It’s not about creating an echo chamber. I respect the right to free speech, but that isn’t the same as allowing people a platform to systematically organize hate using falsified information. This is a situation where silence is complicity. Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
As usual, I have typed 500 words when 50 will do, and for that I apologize.
Go to those instances and read what’s there
No, I do not care to and why would you do that? You already have determined it’s not right for you. Any alleged content problem that you have to see by going there would, if true, be a problem there. Does that make it a problem here? If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn’t that on me? Isn’t the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?
The ultimate measure of freedom is the freedom to abstain. (Nobody is forcibly opting us in to reading their content.)
I’m just a regular user of SDF so these things aren’t up to me, but I would think that it would take more than “because it exists.” Defederation and Federation shouldn’t be used to signal alignment and nonalignment of expression, but for reasons of managing the network itself. A telephone company provides service to everyone and doesn’t care what you do with your phone. But, if someone is using it in a way that disrupts the network itself or others’ ability to use the network, the telephone company should act to protect the overall integrity of the network. Even then it wouldn’t silence the speech because of the speech, but because of the network.
Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
Look, it’s one thing to be put off by someone going out of their way to affront you. It’s another to feel affronted after going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere. By that logic, since you have found something then defederation alone should not be enough, as “we are giving them a platform” still, because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation. Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to “deplatform” them. Then, because someone can connect using an IP address, their ISP should disconnect their service or else they’re providing their ISP as a platform. But as they can get another ISP in this day of mobile connectivity, you could chase down their power company, yes, because their power company is a platform – as is their landlord – as is their employer. And so on.
I remain unconvinced.
Edit: I somehow failed to copy and paste
>No, I do not care to and why would I?
No, I do not care to and why would you do that?
Let’s not be like Reddit and comment essays without reading the article. That’s why. You don’t even know what you’re arguing for if you don’t look at it.
If I have to take extraordinary steps here to see it here, isn’t that on me? Isn’t the apparatus doing what it is supposed to be doing if I seek out a thing and find it?
It’s been all over my all feed personally, maybe you just don’t pay attention to where content is coming from?
going out of your way to find if there is something objectionable anywhere
See above
because other people might visit there directly instead of through federation
See above
Therefore, due to that situation, they should not have an DNS entry so you work on their Registrar to “deplatform” them.
No, I believe the internet is the utility. Unless actual crimes are being committed, they can have their websites. The key difference here is lemmy.sdf.org is relaying the posts from its own server, and therefore participating in spreading harmful disinformation. It’s not like a telephone company that lets anyone call, it’s like a newspaper that published anyone’s articles, or a bulletin board at the library that doesn’t moderate what’s there.
I don’t want to create an echo chamber, so lets make sure that people I disagree with can never talk to anyone who doesn’t agree with them
it’s active disinformation campaigns and propaganda.
That’s for me to decide, not for you to decide on my behalf.
Edit:
Their instance continues to exist without us, their free speech continues, but by remaining federated we are giving them a platform.
This entire ideology is bullshit and I am not interested in being on instances run by people who believe it.
funchords, ha, we don’t know each other but we’ve bumped into each other before on reddit long ago and I remember your name and that you were in a barbershop quartet. looks like you picked a good instance as home, be well man :)
You are aware that defederating from an instance won’t stop individual users from that instance joining yours?
To be honest your view on things seems far too innocent, like paradox of tolerance manifest. What you desire is something that’s fought for and fiercely defended. The rest of the internet should serve evidence for why we can’t just have nice things.
Also did you look at the instances in question yourself?
What do you think the paradox of tolerance is? The reason why I ask is because it’s commonly misunderstood, because the quote explaining it is taken out of context.
If you believe I used the term incorrectly please say so. Your phrasing comes off as you’re someone who knows a thing, and wants everyone else to know they know.
Also did you look at the instances in question yourself?
No. I’m operating under the principle that anything that I have to experience by going elsewhere practically proves that it isn’t causing a problem here.
You are aware that defederating from an instance won’t stop individual users from that instance joining yours?
If defederation causes objectionable people that would otherwise leave the remaining network alone to – because they were defederated – to come here and everywhere and not leave other instances alone, then the best move from the network’s perspective is to remain federated. Right?
I seriously doubt sdf.org will defederate due to political, religious or other kind of views unless some kind of danger to its users is involved, and even then I’m pretty sure we would go to ARPA votes over it. While the instance might be recent the community behind sdf.org is ancient (I say this with my utmost respect for them ) so yea, not their first rodeo or last one. If you don’t like the views of those instances feel free to block them yourself. Best regards.
Maybe because of the literal content of your post?
I scrolled through some of their posts and comments and it’s full of ridiculous anti-left propaganda, for example a post where some liberal Florida family fleeing the state when some child protection laws got passed, implying liberals abuse children and won’t live in a state that doesn’t allow them to.
I’ve got news for you: the entire planet has not taken up American political idiocy. Nobody outside of the USA (and many of the people in it) gives a fuck about American political slapfights.
If you want a safe space instance for one or another American “team,” find it somewhere else or start one yourself.
Please don’t! The whole reason I made an account here is because they don’t defederate. I want to control what I read. If you have a problem with a certain instance or user, block them yourself! It’s very easy.
I don’t want to have to spin up a whole instance just for myself.
I decided to see for myself so I could voice an informed opinion. One of the first posts I saw on their (EH) Local channel, titled Based Pride Month, is an image of a headline reading, Saudi Arabia Celebrate Pride Month by Hanging Gays with Rainbow Noose. This is hateful content. My ability to discern such has nothing to do with savvy. I don’t want to see these opinions because they are grotesque.
However, I haven’t seen ExHeads leaking out into the greater Lemmiverse. That said, I want nothing to do with anyone who considers this ok. Even if they are currently fairly contained, they have made it clear who they are and I choose not to surround myself with bigots.
I vote to defederate. We don’t need to wait for them to become a huge pain in the ass. They are showing us who they are.
So, why don’t you block it yourself? Why are you making that decision for others?
What do you think a federation is? If you don’t like the decisions of an instance you go to another one. If this instance defederates from rammy.site I’m staying, if not I’m leaving. You’re free to leave if they defederate too, and if you felt the need to leave because of it I’d be happy to have you gone.
I can block users or communities but I don’t think there’s a way to block instances.
There are some tricks you can do with uBlock, which I’ve done, but that doesn’t help on apps.
I hope this feature gets added to Lemmy at some point.
So, the effect of “blocking an instance” is that you’d be blocking all users from that instance? Seems like a useful feature.
What I had in mind was only to block posts from that instance when browsing “all”. Exploding-Heads and Lemmygrad, for example, each have a lot of different communities that are all ideologically identical and it’s tedious to block each one individually.
But I like your idea even more. Blocking all users from an instance should also be possible at the user-level. This would be similar to defederation.
You said it better than I was going to. Keeping truthaboutjews.ru out of grandma’s feed is one thing, but I feel like I’m savvy enough to read garbage responsibly. Maybe I’m being overconfident but there it is.
Do you have the same level of confidence in children and people who are deeply mentally ill?
If you want to read far-right trash, you can set up an account on a far-right trash server, rather than insisting that everybody else on the instance tolerates them for your convenience.
Their posts might be a harmless novelty for you but for others, they’re threats of violence and celebrations of abuse.
Do you have the same level of confidence in children and people who are deeply mentally ill?
I’m not SDF, or even that familiar with the organisation, but I would argue we shouldn’t let such people use this instance. Or grandma from my example, for that matter.
Their posts might be a harmless novelty for you but for others, they’re threats of violence and celebrations of abuse.
I never said they’re a harmless novelty to me. I don’t particularly expect to interact with these people but if I do I promise it won’t be in support of their hate, or even passive of it.
If you want to read far-right trash, you can set up an account on a far-right trash server, rather than insisting that everybody else on the instance tolerates them for your convenience.
Like people have said, you can block things for yourself.
Do you have the same level of confidence in children and people who are deeply mentally ill?
This instance, which you are not a member of, is for adults who can decide what they want to read for themselves.
Maybe you should stick to discussing issues about the instance you’re actually on, instead of wasting people’s time in discussions which don’t involve you.
Imo deferderating should be a last resort. And so far I haven’t seen any excessive cases of people coming over and breaking the rules of this instance.
