ELDRITCH BLAST
If I can get wish, I will get wish.
This is one of the reasons I’m really not happy with DND. I just don’t want to play a resource management game. I want to do cool stuff.
There are lots of games that aren’t built around resource management and attrition, but unfortunately DND is so popular it sucks all the air out of the room.
I do feel that slowly, edition by edition, D&D is moving closer to it’s recourse management being tied to it’s round based action economy which I actually enjoy.
As a player, it’s already pretty easy to play this way, before counting subclasses, the rogue has literally no abilities that are limited by anything but once per turn, and if you pick some fun narrative spells as warlock and rely on invocations and eldritch blast, you can be totally effective without any resource management. Both of these exclude hitpoints of course but that is a pretty reasonable resource for a combat focussed fantasy game.
My understanding is that OneDnd was moving more towards per-long-rest instead of anything else. I haven’t been following it for a few months though.
I would vastly prefer if powers were based on something more granular than long rest.
Most abilities should be either “per round/turn” or “per encounter”.
Abilities that are too powerful for that should either not exist or require significant preparation (enough for the opposition to have a chance to discover and interrupt it).
Abilities that fall in the second category should automatically come with a less powerful variant in the first category.
Maybe as a middle ground some player abilities could use the “roll for recharge” mechanic from powerful monster abilities.
Then you have casters blowing max slot every fight and trivializing them.
Abilities that are too powerful for that should either not exist or require significant preparation
I like the idea of having a few OP abilities, but having them require non-trivial preparation within an encounter. E.g. “charging” for several turns without moving or taking damage.
That sounds nice in theory, but actually charging stuff for several rounds while the encounter is already ongoing practically just means one player is doing nothing for most of the encounter. Not ideal.
I was thinking more along the lines of preparation before the actual encounter even starts, e.g. setting up an ambush or the magical equivalent of building a trebuchet during a siege.
I kinda disagree with all of this. Big abilities that come with in-universe complications are the bread and butter of RPGs. E.G. Connection: Mafia: You know a guy in the mafia you can ask for help, but he might want a favor later…
Or think of things like Wish, etc.
It kinda sounds like you want a wargame with a bit of story connecting the battles. Which is fine, but then just play a wargame I guess?
I think we don’t actually disagree and I was just not precise enough in my original post.
What I described above applies to abilities that are relevant in combat and any other type of encounter that the respective system mechanically treats as a conflict similar to combat. That absolutely does not mean other abilities should not exist, just that they should not be practically usable during an ongoing combat-like short term conflict.
Also: Abilities that are useful in short term combat-like conflicts and abilities that are not should not compete for mechanical resources of any kind, that is never fun.
Unpopularly, me and my friends actually enjoyed 4e and I’ll probably start up a campaign again sometime soon… But I can see how it could be perceived as more of a boardgame-resource-managing type of game.
But oh well if we enjoy ourselves, why not?
We played like 3 sessions and didn’t like it, but I’ve been thinking about trying it again soon to give it another try. The trick is to find players who want to play with me who aren’t like “Eewww 4th edition”.
You can play fighter or warlock. Dnd limits extreme power with spell slots and charges. Otherwise they’d have to nerf the upper power level. Can’t have people casting fire storm every few minutes. It’d ruin balance AND ensure you had to cast that every time to deal with increased threats.
Yes, but someone is probably going to play a long rest class and force the entire game to center around that cadence. And the long rest cadence kind of sucks for me.
There are other ways to do game balance.
How do you do long rests that makes it annoying? Usually it’s:
Party: We would like to take a long rest.
DM: Sounds good, you are now rested.
Sounds like you want to be a thief, a fighter, or a warlock that casts Eldridtch Blast all day.
Someone else said similar in here, but as I said to them: that wouldn’t really solve the problem. Someone’s probably going to play a long-rest class, and the game will still have to be centered on that cadence.
Though a game of no long rest classes does sound pretty good. Fighter, rogue, warlock… different warlock? Pinning everything to short rests I think would work much better for how people actually want to play.
That aside, there’s a whole universe of other ways to balance games than per-rest. DND mostly just has the one and frankly I don’t enjoy it.
NGL if you take out what’s left of the resources in 5e you’ll reduce the game to exclusively standing in front of the enemy taking turns hitting each other, instead of just mostly.
The truth is if you want a resourceless game you’re gonna have to play a different system, and if you’re gonna play a different system you’re gonna have to run it. Luckily, it’s very easy to get groups for new systems, because you just tell the 5e players it’s D&D and they probably won’t even notice the rules changed.
I’d love to play other systems. My weekly group finally agreed to try other things on the regular, and so far everyone has really enjoyed it. I think the core engine is called Year Zero? Honestly the guy running it maybe did a smart thing by giving the group a short Google doc with the rules summarized instead of the actual rule book. Getting players to read is embarrassing difficult.
Also, are you me? Because I have often half jokingly said that you could just change from 5e to another system and the average player wouldn’t notice because they’re so bad at the rules anyway.
I’m slightly joking, but it’s a lot less than half. My respect for 5e players took a massive nosedive after I actually played it, so I have run a few oneshots that have started with “oh by the way we’re using Pathfinder 2e tonight” because I just told the 5e players we were playing “D&D”.
Yeah, I hate that DnD is such a resource management game too. (More so that is is the ONLY game my group will consider playing.)
I tend to horde any limited resource. TTRPG or video game.
Is this group of mooks big enough to justify using power/spell/item X? Is there a bigger group around the corner? Is this just a lieutenant or the BBEG? Oh, this guy is monologueing, he must be the BBEG. But does his fight have multiple phases? OR is he just a puppet and the real BBEG is waiting for us to blow all our abilities.
Doesn’t matter how narratively I’m engaged in the plot. I’ve got a tactically aware mind and these thoughts are always there.
Same.
In my last DND game, where the wizard was extremely fast and loose with his spell slots, the DM gave him a free long rest in the middle of the final boss fight. It kind of sort of made sense for story reasons but not really. I was honestly kind of pissed. Like on the one hand the wizard was having fun. On the other like what’s the point if we’re going to do that. I’ve been here doing the tactical “this is how we can solve this problem with the fewest resources spent” and no one else is, and he gets this? Ugh.
Even Baldur’s gate 3 betrayed me like this. There’s a lengthy sequence that I did with like no resources spent. It was slow and cautious but I knew there was a big boss at the end of it. And then they put a fucking full-rest fountain right before the boss fight. I could’ve been fireballing everything instead of playing smart!
When it was my turn to DM, before the scene I just complained about, that wizard was practically begging for a long rest. No sir. You get multiple hard encounters and a race against enemies. Maybe don’t blow Hold Person on the fleeing civilian when the rogue has expertise and is ready to grapple next time.
I’m much happier now that we’re playing a different system.
I really dislike “per day” resource management, it really limits the way in which stories are constructed!
Same here, I’m always debating with myself:
“Should I use this? Should I save it for later? I’ll save it.”
Then I never use it…
Use it the first time it’s needed. Always use it. As a DM I often expect people to use their stuff. Besides, having low resources makes for interesting decisions. And the DM will know if you’re all out of resources anyways.
Barely making it through is more fun than casually strolling through
As a DM I usually make things to utilize my parties resources to the fullest so when they decide to hoard abilities and not use them it usually makes things harder than it has to be
Today my party will be encountering a creature with an aura of silence (like the spell but a bigger area) which will basically put half the party on survival duty (managing the layout of the encounter) while the other half are on combat duty (as they’re the only ones able to do damage)
It’s going to be rough but some encounters I make primarily focus on the abilities of some party members over others and it shifts about for who that is
Hell a few weeks ago I had an encounter where no one was very effective and it was super intense where a party member jumped in front of another shielding them and keeping them alive for the remainder of the fight even though they knew it would probably put them into death saves (didn’t by 2hp)
Basically what I’m saying is that sometimes the best tool for a power fantasy is having powerless moments, it helps to make the world more alive and encourages out of the box thinking
Disagree. If the party just uses Fly to get over the cliff instead of coming up with an interesting solution, that’s kind of boring. It also makes it harder for non-casters to shine.
Second, I don’t really like when the world scales with the party. The DM changing the world because the wizard blew all his slots stupidly feels bad. Why even have the choice of spending resources over a long period if everything is just going to scale with us?
Also it kind of sucks when you do get to the big boss and the wizard is tapped out because he’s been real loose with his slots
Switch to an in-universe time length.
‘This spell recharges at the next dawn, as long you have fleemed the scrabinator.’
‘This spell can be recharged by having a really good meal with your closest friends.’
‘To recharge this spell, you must sacrifice a male hare on an alter to your god under the full moon.’
This provides a sub-task that the caster is motivated to reach for, which helps with RP and moving the story along.
This is how most magic works in Unknown Armies, by the way. That game is fantastic and just drips with flavor and insight (2nd edition anyway. I haven’t read 3rd)
If your book mage wants to charge up, he has to go find some rare valuable books and add them to his collection. If the chaos mage wants a charge, she has to start taking some risks. You can do some crazy things with a major charge, but getting one is probably work. Or win Russian roulette if you’re a chaos mage.
In practice it can be difficult with a large group where everyone has their own obsession. It provides good down time options and plot hooks, though.
*Resssource
