Another player who was at the table during the incident sent me this meme after the problem player in question (they had a history) left the group chat.
Felt like sharing it here because I’m sure more people should keep this kind of thing in mind.
Reminds me of all the discourse about the chair
Do you have any idea how many fandoms have had their own The Chair incidents? Please specify.
I don’t even remember if it was WotC published or on a third party site, but someone released a magic item wheel chair that was basically designed to allow a paraplegic character to keep up with the rest of the party, and everyone proceeded to lost their goddamn minds over it for like 2 months.
Why would that even be a problem? Plenty of blind people in ancient stories, myths and legends. Probably better off without this person.
I mean on one side you’d have the magic to heal many if not all disabilities.
On the other hand in reality we have wheel chairs and stuff to heal and prevent many diseases, too, but still not everyone can get those…
As a fun saying goes “The future is here, it’s just not evenly distributed”
The same could easily apply to magics of many kinds
Every time I see shit about cutting edge prosthetics with near-full motion capability, controllable via muscles and nerves or whatever they even use nowadays, I’m reminded of my friend from work who couldn’t even afford something beyond a simple plastic harness arm that essentially is just to make it look like he has an arm, with no utility value.
He would take it off during work because it just got in the way, but wore it out to avoid all the questions about it with randos.
Every time I see things about cancer treatments I’m reminded of a few people I knew from my parents social events that have died in the last 10 years simply because they couldn’t afford the treatments. A few even got divorced to keep their debt from ruining their spouse after they’re gone.
The future can be here all it wants, but until everyone has access to it, we may as well be considered a medieval society.
5e isn’t that bad. Even poor people make two silver a day, and if hiring someone to cast a second level spell to cure a family member of blindness was more than they could afford, you could get so rich casting for money. But those rules are just a suggestion, and I’d probably make it so at least some cases of blindness are a little harder to cure. And you could also make it so economic disparity is much worse.
We have the ability to make Tuberculosis not exist and have for half a century. At least 1.6 million unnecessary deaths occurred because of it in 2022. Anyone who can’t think further than the first point has the thought capabilities of a gnat.
We have the ability to make Tuberculosis not exist and have for half a century.
Please tell me more. My knowledge about this must be very outdated.
There are a lot of things that are really only failing for a lack of distributing ressources. But Tubercolosis (where our once widely used vaccine was mostly ineffective in eradicating it and the treatment is complicated and long requiring monitoring of each patient because of the possibility of secondary infection from the antibiotics or organ damage) is not what comes to my mind first, second or for quite a while.
In fact in both cases research is ongoing in search for more effective vaccines and easier treatments (primarily for shorter treatment periods as well as against the multiple antibiotic resistences), because our tools today are not actually up to the task.
There’s also the common modern fantasy trope of blind heroes - Daredevil, blind swordmasters, demon hunters from Warcraft, etc. I wouldn’t count these characters as “disability representation” because they can perceive their environment as well as a sighted character could, but they certainly set a precedent for meeting a blind NPC in an RPG.
The Blind Swordsman is a massive trope in fantasy literature. Take a look at David Carradine’s character in Circle of Iron for an archetypal example. It’s a staple in many kung fu movies - the Master uses their hyper developed senses for sounds and for movements in the air to sense and react to their enemies. Or take Luke Skywalker fighting the drone with his eyes covered by using the Force. Hodr was the blind son of Odin.
Blindness also occurs throughout mythic traditions, sometimes as punishment by the gods. It occurs in Greek and Jewish myths. The witch-woman in Hawk the Slayer was blind (played by the great Patricia Quinn, who also starred as Magenta in Rocky Horror).
I think it makes perfect thematic sense to include blindness in characters. A blind beggar, a blind prophet, or a blind samurai are all staples of the fantasy tradition. I’d actually love it if we had to work out a player character who is blind, but that would take a fair amount of effort. I think the payoff would be remarkable and memorable, though.
Critical Role had a guest playing a blind character. It was a wizard with folk hero background who used his bird familiar to see. He was awesome.
Shakäste and his familiar the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna! Very awesome character.
I could swear he was a cleric who somehow had the familiar spell. Yeah, cleric: https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Shakäste
Those are from our world where magic is no more than a suggestion. In dungeons and dragons magic is tangible and can very easily cure blindness or any other ailment
Hmm, that doesn’t mean everyone is perfect and beautiful though. Maybe they can’t afford to pay a sorcerer. Oh, I know! Maybe they have a curse.
I mean that really depends on the world you are set in: if magic is everywhere/can heal anything someone who is blind could break immersion IF there is no good reason (he doesn’t want to see for personal reasons, it’s a curse and can’t be removed etc.)
However if magic treatment is rare/expensive of course there would be lots of disabled people (monster attacks, accidents, diseases, etc.)
Obviously thats not the problem here(the guys just a dick) but it’s something i run into a lot when designing worlds/characters: a lot of our real world problems fall apart if introduced into a magical setting.
it could lead to really cool story/character stuff though like jjk: people born with broken bodies but incredible magical powers
Never miss an opportunity for unique challenges/stories.
It could be a hook like fullmetal alchemist or a realization for characters later: they are fine the way they are they don’t need to be fixed kind of stuff. simply discounting disabilities takes so much potential out of worlds/stories.
You’re overstating how common magic is. Aragorn is only 5th level, and you need to be a 13th level bard/cleric/druid to regrow limbs. Even then, you can only regrow one or two per day. It can be done, but it’s not common.
If I were a DM, I’d consider magic to be another human sense. It can’t fix the body more than the body existed before injury, and still doesn’t fix all injuries. So like a blind monk that trains can extend magic to act like an echolocation, but they were born blind so can’t be unblinded. Or someone broke their back and it healed incorrectly causing paralysis, only highly specialized magic has a chance of fixing it.
Which is actually how it works in the real world too!
Except it’s called medicine instead of magic. Trolololol.
Doctors have specialisations, some are very very specialised: e.g. specific types of neurosurgeon.
Also, accidents happen. Sometimes the doctor/magic-user gets it catastrophically wrong.
In most magic systems (RPG and books/films) using magic costs the magic user something (decades of studying, exhaustion, life force, mana potions/crystals, …). So it would be natural that they want to be compensated for their work.
So depending on how difficult regrowing an eye is for the magic user that could be quite pricey.
Some magic systems also require the magic user to exactly picture what they want to cast. Not sure if anyone can actually picture all the connections of an optical nerve.
Another possibility is that maybe magic can only heal injuries and illnesses, but can’t do anything with congenital disabilities, because the magic restores the person to their natural state, and being blind/etc is what’s natural for that character. So even if magic could heal those who are disabled due to circumstances, there would still be plenty of disabled people who were born with their disabilities.
But… There’s a spell called remove blindness in several dnd editions. It’s not even high level.
I’d say that if there’s a spell that literally states a fix, it’s fixable. There might be some that do not though.
Maybe the spell only removes acquired forms of blindness, say through the magic spell Blindness, curses, etc, and has no ability to generate new, functioning tissue for someone that never had any.
I’m gonna devil’s advocate this for a second.
Unless you’re very poor (which is fair in most fantasy settings there’s always poor people) magic kinda negates disabilities.
Like is there no spell that can cure these disabilities?
With that said to have that big of an issue with it just makes you an ass
Depends on the world, maybe some magic systems dont allow for healing or performing certain tasks?
See that would be the defining information.
To what extent to the healing spells heal?
But I’m reminded of that dnd shitpost about revivify and how it even regrows lost limbs and I feel like something like a spinal cord or ocular nerve would be fixed by that.
Hell you could make a hospital where they just kill you if your sick or wounded then revivify your ass back to full health lmao
I think it boils down to what table you’re at. If you want to have strictly defined rules, then you build out a table with players that has strictly defined rules that the world and players must adhere to. If you’re all kind of OK with “rule of cool” or hand waving away some things within reason (not so much that you’re just completely going Calvinball with the sessions though I’m sure some people like that as well!) that’s totally fine too.
Ultimately you are all just telling a story together. Anyone who is so angry about someone with a disability in their fantasy world that they are willing to leave the table - to the surprise of the DM and another player who clearly are not on that wavelength - is probably not somebody who is a good fit anyway.
The only critique I could possibly give the DM here is for them to reflect on whether or not they set proper expectations at the table. But frankly (barring critical info that has been left out) this is incredibly petty and a player with any emotional maturity should be able to talk through this and move forward with the group. What a strange hill to die on.
Revivify doesn’t regrow lost limbs. That’s explicitly stated. You’re thinking of resurrection, which is 7th level and costs a diamond worth 1000 gp.
I haven’t checked how this is presented in 5E, but I remember in 2E that the costs of the stronger healing spells that operated on more than hit points, and especially the Raise Dead and Resurrection spells had a very high cost in material components, and took their toll on the caster. In other words, not to be used lightly and all the time. Which means finding someone to cast it for you would come at a correspondingly high cost.
In a well-designed campaign world, that should be reflected in either a high monetary cost for the casting of such spells (a church requesting a sizable donation, for example) or some kind of demonstration that the target is worthy in the eyes of the church or its god.
This can actually turn into a storytelling and role-playing opportunity. Imagine you’re blind, and you and your party need to prove that you’re a worthy person while blind before they’ll restore your sight. Or the whole party is made totally blind for the duration of a test or short quest that you have to complete together before the restoration spell can be cast.
All this sufficiently explains the existence of blind people. Lack of imagination is not an excuse for bigotry.
Also, a character may be unable to get their sight restored, and that can and should be explored for its role-playing potential.
A great example is the spell “Regenerate” in DnD
It’s a 7th level spell so not many people will have access to it. And given the nature of wizards being super secretive about their spells it’s no surprise it’s not more common.
Also at my table I ruled that someone having such spells used on them can have the complexity of the idea of “self” play a role on what is healed. ie they may be willing but after a long time ones idea of self will play a role in what one sees as “complete” and what gets regenerated
ie they may be willing but after a long time ones idea of self will play a role in what one sees as “complete” and what gets regenerated
That is fascinating, do you mind elaborating? I’m reminded a little of the “ship of Theseus” concept. Like, would the initial regeneration of a limb affect the quality of future healing and/or regeneration, or is it more of a long-term psychological effect like “my arm is back, but I don’t ‘feel’ like this is my real arm”?
I’m no Dungeon Master but when a PC has their limb ripped off, isn’t the magic that is required to restore the limb kept behind quite a high spellcasting level? And the cost of the materials might be out of reach to more like “Michigan poor” than just “Dharavi poor”.
Level 7 spell (regenerate)
Modern medical aid negates many diseases and disabilities including some blindnesses. But we still have people with these problems.
This is an opportunity for worldbuilding and comments about society. You’d be a fool to look at any fantasy setting and think it’s an equal society.
Here’s a thought:
For someone with a congenital defect, maybe the healing spell ‘heals’ their body back to the way it was naturally-with the defect.
Lesser restoration (5e 2nd lvl) can cure blindness, but I’m not sure if it can restore destroyed or removed eyes. So it would depend on the kind of blindness, and if it was at all magical in nature. That and from a few threads the estimate for its cost is around 40 gold. For a lot of “commoners” their income is anywhere from poor (60sp) to well off(1gp) per month. So I can easily see many mid tier peasants not having the money to have lesser restoration cast on them. Especially if they live in some tiny village where there isn’t a temple in town, like you would have in a city.
Even in a city if the head priest is high level, and has say, 4 other actual clerics in the building not just priests, thats 18 casts of lesser restoration (wasting high lvl slots on a lvl 20 cleric) and maybe 5 per 5th level cleric. So 38 a day. In a city with tens of thousands of citizens with many myriad medical issues. Sure maybe there are 4 or 5 temples, but its still just a numbers issue at some point.
The dnd economy is a bit wonky and its magic system is difficult to match with the world sometimes, esp high magic settings, but I think the sheer scale of the population of commoners and non magic users sort of makes it pretty understandable that disabilities would still exist everywhere except the very wealthy or capable(adventurers themselves).
This of course all depends on what level of magic you have in your world. If it’s very high magic then maybe there are a lot less disabilities, but those that exist are less “im blind from basic eye deterioriation” and more “goblins tore my eyes out as a child and it’ll take a decently capable cleric to fix this, and also I’m blind so I make very little money so I’m SoL”
Another thing to consider here: the player characters are absolute heroes in most campaigns, not just the average rando peasant. So the stuff they have access to (magic skills, potions, money, …) is not at all an indication of what the average person has access to. Maybe that bias causes some players to lose touch with ingame reality.
In 5e, even poor people still get 2sp a day. It’s not clear how much it costs to hire someone to cast spells, but it’s either something they could reasonably pay for to cure blindness, or it’s so much that players can make enough money casting spells that money becomes a non-issue even at fairly low levels. Also, that’s not going to work if you want an NPC that is blind instead of was blind until they met a PC who had a spare second-level spell slot.
Realistically most adventure parties leave many disabled people (and beasts) in their wake…
