President Joe Biden goes into next year’s election with a vexing challenge: Just as the U.S. economy is getting stronger, people are still feeling horrible about it.

Pollsters and economists say there has never been as wide a gap between the underlying health of the economy and public perception. The divergence could be a decisive factor in whether the Democrat secures a second term next year. Republicans are seizing on the dissatisfaction to skewer Biden, while the White House is finding less success as it tries to highlight economic progress.

“Things are getting better and people think things are going to get worse — and that’s the most dangerous piece of this," said Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, who has worked with Biden. Lake said voters no longer want to just see inflation rates fall — rather, they want an outright decline in prices, something that last happened on a large scale during the Great Depression.

“Honestly, I’m kind of mystified by it,” she said.

115 points
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
reply
6 points

An element to this is that there are a lot of different statistics that can tell a lot of different stories depending on what bits of data you pick.

For instance, most people would probably say that the average person had less purchasing power in October of this year compared to October of 2022. They would actually be wrong, as inflation-adjusted hourly wages have actually increased slightly in that time period (by ten cents, admittedly, but the fact remains that wage growth has been outpacing inflation).

This does not mean that every person has seen a growth in purchasing power, and my loose understanding is that most of the growth has been occurring at the bottom of the labor market (which is arguably a good thing from an equity standpoint).

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

permalink
report
parent
reply
15 points
*
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

I completely agree that it’s not going to win votes. I think the takeaway is that the average consumer is not a particularly rational actor (much to the chagrin of economists), and your messaging needs to address the actual source of their frustrations, which may very well be the mere fact that the numbers got higher even though their purchasing power hasn’t actually decreased.

I’d emphasize how you said that the average Americas is clearly not feeling the benefit, because I think that holds a really key part of this. Consumer sentiment does not necessarily track actual data, whether they’re high level metrics like GDP or more individual ones like inflation-adjusted wages.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

And this story makes a claim that purchasing power is greater in October '23 than October '22 while omitting the 6.5% rate for '22 and the 7% rate the year prior. Inflation is down this year, but that doesn’t dig us out of hole created during the two prior years.

permalink
report
parent
reply
98 points

Whenever anyone says “the economy”, you can and should mentally substitute it with “rich people’s yacht money”.

Rich people’s yacht money doing well doesn’t do shit for 90% of the population. It doesn’t pay the rent, put food on the table or clothes on their back. They can’t afford to see a doctor or ride the damn bus.

And you want them to be happy because some stockbroker is getting a second holiday in the Maldives this year?

Stupid arrogant fucks.

permalink
report
reply
35 points
*

That’s why they say “unemployment being too low is bad for the economy”. Low unemployment means higher negotiating power for workers, which means higher wages and better working conditions. The only way that statement makes any sense is if they’re exclusively talking about yacht money.

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

But the rules of supply and demand should only apply to the consumer, not the producer.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

Don’t even start on the wage-inflation-spiral idea. It’s the workers’ fault for wanting higher wages as it allows service-oriented business to charge higher prices, driving inflation.

While the theory probably has roots in real-world pricing algorithms (eg how much can we charge people in X region for Netflix) that rise in cost contributes to inflation figures. The fact that wages have been stagnant for decades undermines the whole argument.

“Well the poors can afford it and the shareholders will love it!” FFS

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

Similarly, when they say NAIRU, you can and should mentally substitute “inexhaustible scab labour pool”.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points
*

Low unemployment means higher negotiating power for workers

Too bad all those “right to work” people have been actively fighting against negotiation powers for workers. But lets blame the ‘yacht owners’ and piss and moan about how they take advantage of the lopsided negotiation powers we voted in for them.

I know! We should put exclusively yacht owners in power! They’ll totally fix it. /s

permalink
report
parent
reply
22 points

When people say they’re not happy about the economy, this is the shit they’re talking about, not statistics.

Ordinary people get fucked in this economy, and there isn’t any party that can do anything about it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
19 points

The socialist party.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

They’d like to do something about it. But they can’t get elected.

Unless there’s something else they’re planning.

permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

Politics literally sets the rules. If you can get an elected majority you can certainly do something about it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

To fix things we would need one party to take over 153 separate branches of government.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Not at all. You’re missing the forest for the trees lmao

The problem is that no matter how much inflation goes down, if the price gouging capitalists that own the grocery stores, the gas stations, and so on don’t stop.

It’s not about rich people’s yacht it’s about the American people being taken advantage of simply because they can. The economy is doing a lot better, record low unemployment for example is a huge metric here but what difference does that make when the grocery stores are selling less for more money?

You’re crying about rich people’s yachts when you should be crying about record price gouging without any cause. Those yachts don’t have impact on the average American’s QoL but price gouging absolutely does.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points
*

When investors do better, nobody else does better. The whole system is based on harvesting wealth from society as a whole, and concentrating it in the top 1%. Ever hear of the Gini coefficient?

Yes, price-gouging companies jacking up their prices and paying fuckall in wages are the direct instrument of suffering. But they do so in order to provide yacht money for the investor class, and in so doing they impoverish literally everyone else.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-4 points

The uh… the yachts are payed for with price gouging my dude. 😕

permalink
report
parent
reply
-13 points

Median income is up since before the pandemic, even when adjusting for inflation. The average person is better off.

permalink
report
parent
reply
25 points

“My rent is going up and food and gas are more expensive. My tooth hurts but I can’t afford to get it fixed, and now my check engine light is on.”

“ACTUALLY median income is up!”

Do you see how that’s not helping?

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Gas is actually the one thing I’ve noticed that has been a lot better lately. But everything else is still expensive from the crazy greedflation every company was trying to pull when we were tolerating post-pandemic cost rises.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

Health care is actually hugely underestimated, here. Health costs have been going up decade over decade and people’s health problems have been stacking up. While in the '70s and '80s people could get treatment, someone born in those years started out with the ability to get medical care but has increasingly lost access as they’ve gone through their lives.

Those people are getting older, now, and it’s getting to the point where they can’t just ignore the stuff they can’t afford. Conditions that would have been easy to treat (but often rare/expensive) are becoming chronic, fatal, or debilitating.

Life expectancy is starting to drop and while that drop is largely due to COVID (which, by itself, is an insane thing) it’s also a warning sign about what’s to come.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-8 points

Prices go up every year, it’s by how much matters. For example, rent has been going up slower than inflation for a year now. For every person whose rent went up, there must be a lot of people who don’t go online to verify their rent did not go up

permalink
report
parent
reply
16 points

Cost of living is outpacing it. Housing in particular.

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

Yeah every time I get a raise I think “finally I’ll be able to buy a house soon” then I look at the prices and see I’m still losing ground.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-6 points

Wrong

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

Definitely not true for me personally or anyone I know well enough to know their financial info. Most people I know are barely able to stay in place, with their ‘raises’ almost immediately consumed by inflation and higher rent everywhere.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-7 points

They are not the median, then, but maybe in the lower half of the income which is not doing as well

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

Median by definition is not skewed by outliers. If there are 160 million workers, the 80 millionth worker is the median

permalink
report
parent
reply
88 points

the grocery stores and the rest of the capitalist pigs have yet to stop price gouging

permalink
report
reply
28 points

Groceries really are the problem. I lived comfortably up until about a year ago. Now the checking account gets pretty low every couple weeks. And that’s with decent raises for me and my wife. I don’t even care about gas prices except in how they add to the cost of everything that gets shipped. Food prices are killing us.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Yeah I went from not having to really check prices when I shopped to having to be careful so I don’t accidentally spend $200/week.

A bag of ruffles, which I swear is only a tiny bit bigger than the size that used to exist between the snack size bags and the regular bags, was something like $6.75. It’s legitimately cheaper to get the gourmet kettle cooked chips.

Just stupid expensive for some things.

permalink
report
parent
reply
76 points

Pollsters and economists say there has never been as wide a gap between the underlying health of the economy and public perception.

There’s never been as wide a gap between the rich and the working class, either. Gee, I wonder if that could have something to do with it?!

permalink
report
reply
20 points
*

I assumed that was true. The article, however, claims

Inequality has lessened somewhat in recent years as wage growth has favored poorer workers.

Ed: even if the article is correct, the gap is still massive. And so the increased profits (due to price gouging) may make some numbers look better, I can’t help but think many households are still struggling to catch up?

Supposedly pay has increased across the board but enough to catch us up to, say, 2019 buying power? The article claims households are better off than in 2020.

The article seems to want to blame those with dim views of the economy without a satisfactory explanation of the psychology, just a bunch of guesses that, to me, don’t seem convincing. The supporting evidence seems rather cherry picked.

If food is up 25% since the pandemic, have all wages also gone up that much? Ok, ok, sure, overall cost of living probably hasn’t gone up that much. But my wages most certainly have not even come close to catching up with the current COL.

So maybe it is the middle classes, rather than lowest earners, who are feeling shafted. Maybe those in charge aren’t looking at the right statistics to understand the perceptions.

permalink
report
parent
reply
18 points

Inequality has lessened somewhat in recent years as wage growth has favored poorer workers

Also that means pretty much nothing without also looking at how much more money the richest of us have. Their wealth increases by the trillions during covid. To say that inequality is now better because some of the lowest earning workers might be making a few thousand more each year is disingenuous at best.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Never been as wide a gap between pollsters and the public.

permalink
report
parent
reply
57 points

Wages have not kept up with inflation. Why is this so hard for the media to understand?

permalink
report
reply
12 points

Wages have shot up like crazy over the past few years. But the FTC has not enforced antitrust regulations over the past 30 years which led to everything being owned by megacorps with no competition - so we’re getting the screws turned on us right now. The FTC is finally engaging in some antitrust measures, but it is too little, too late. It’s kind of hard to blame that on the current regime.

permalink
report
parent
reply
37 points

Shot up like crazy is a weird way to talk about how the federal minimum wage is still $7.25

permalink
report
parent
reply
21 points
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
8 points

$15,950 per year with full time employment.

permalink
report
parent
reply
13 points

My wage has certainly gone up. I also can’t seem to go grocery shopping without spending $400 now. Literally everything is more expensive, bills included.

So if I look at my wage as 100%, rent and groceries and bills all take up a larger percentage of that then just five years ago.

Unless there are enforced laws around consumer pricing, every company on the planet is gonna raise prices when wages go up.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-1 points

You literally use the term regime to describe yourself.

permalink
report
parent
reply
-2 points

It really doesn’t help to have snooty liberal assholes telling those of us on fixed incomes that our financial situation is great because their 401k’s are appreciating and we’re just too stupid to realize how great the economy is.

The Hillary Clintonism runs strong. Bill at least pretended to give a fuck about people. The democratic pitch being “hey, at least we’re not doing a Gaza to you! Be happy with your scraps” needs a rework Stat.

permalink
report
parent
reply

News

!news@lemmy.world

Create post

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

Community stats

  • 15K

    Monthly active users

  • 18K

    Posts

  • 469K

    Comments