Trump doesn’t need to withdraw from NATO. He just needs to give Putin additional top secret intelligence, ignore all treaties, and do whatever the fuck he wants to do. Seriously, does anyone expect anything else?
Trump can still fuck Ukraine, but now it’s harder to fuck up NATO and international relations for decades to come. Different things.
As much as I hope you are correct, I’m not going to bet that he can’t fuck with our international relations for decades to come.
And you think giving NATO intelligence to Putin won’t screw up our relations with NATO and other nations? Because that’s what he would do if reelected. Hell, knowing Trump, he’d probably invite Putin to the swearing in, and give him Top secret materials as a goody bag when he went home.
Maybe, dear US citizens, don’t vote that evil clown again. Last time really stressed our good friendship.
Trump can openly say he won’t ever allow US military intervention as part of NATO article 5, so even if the US remains in NATO it’s teeth are gone.
If Trump is elected, honestly we have bigger problems than backing up NATO forces. I mean, at least there are NATO forces besides the US. It would be bad, but literally everything about it would be bad for everyone everywhere.
Alternate possibility: he lets Ukraine fall, Russia, China, and/or NK are emboldened to attack NATO countries, and we have to send troops to war.
Trump invokes wartime powers and just never stops.
An actual proactive decision? Instead of relying on nebulous gentleman’s agreements? How novel.
And yet the president could still refuse to answer an article 5 declaration and leave in all but name.
Until impeachment is actually on the table there’s no law restricting the presidency that has any teeth
Call me a conspiracy theorist but if there’s an article 5 declaration and any President decides to stand in the way of the MIC from cranking on full profit mode, they’d get Kennedy’d.
Ok, now pass one requiring the President to support and defend the Constitution, and to not be such an utter shithead.
I realize that second one is delusional when it comes to Trump.
My favorite part was how that was implied and held true by every fucking president.
And now we have to make shit explicit.
I mean, the President-elect must take the Oath of Office as stated in Article II, Section I , Clause 8 of the Constitution:
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation: – “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”.
So it is on there. But it’s really just a pinky promise between you and a higher power. Whether that be a deity, the government, society/the social contract, or whatever.
There are two problems with this:
1, president Trump did not believe in a higher power than himself. He may present as Christian or even a twice-a-year Christian, but make no doubts, he saw himself as the highest power, answerable to no one
2, the president shouldn’t be answerable to no one. But the system of checks and balances is broken by a party-before-country half of Congress and a stacked and obviously biased and hyper-political Supreme Court (that has at least one seat stolen depending on how consistent you are in your beliefs. More if you think back to Bush v Gore…which is also why I hate people spouting for third parties. If half of the Florida Nader voters held their nose and voted for Gore, there wouldn’t have even been a question. Were their virtues worth the result that came of them? I say the same for the Bernie Bros who couldn’t hold their nose for HRC).
Is there a legal argument being made that the oath of office is not a binding agreement?
I feel like that would lose in court….
Trump is arguing that he swore an oath to “preserve, protect, and defend” the constitution, not to “support” it.
It’s only one of Trump’s primary defenses for Jan 6th lately. Where have you been?
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-oath-support-constitution-colorado-insurrection-1847482
That didn’t hold water it seems: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/trump-colorado-ballot-14th-amendment.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
So it’s a non issue.
Oaths are generally not legally binding. For instance, you can not swear to tell the truth in court and perjury is still a thing. The swearing in is just a formality.
Oaths are, as always, dependent upon the character of the person taking them and social consequences about breaking them.
Is there case law on that? I’m not aware of anyone that testifies before a court without being sworn in?
Hadn’t thought about this. If you refuse to swear an oath in court, can they find you in contempt? Or they just like ok, well we tried, let’s move on.
How useful if a dictator gets in. I’m sure they’ll care. How about voting rights bills? Stopping gerrymandering? No?
Got bad news for you, Dems gerrymander just as much in the northern states, :/ the reason it’s not stopped is because it benefits both parties.
SEC. 1250A. LIMITATION ON WITHDRAWAL FROM THE NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION.
(a) OPPOSITION OF CONGRESS TO SUSPENSION, TERMINATION, DENUNCIATION, OR WITHDRAWAL FROM NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY.— The President shall not suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty, done at Wash- ington, DC, April 4, 1949, except by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, provided that two-thirds of the Senators present concur, or pursuant to an Act of Congress.
(b) LIMITATION ON THE USE OF FUNDS.—No funds authorized or appropriated by any Act may be used to support, directly or indirectly, any decision on the part of any United States Govern- ment official to suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty, done at Washington, DC, April 4, 1949, except by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, provided that two-thirds of the Senators present concur, or pursuant to an Act of Congress.
© NOTIFICATION OF TREATY ACTION.—
(1) CONSULTATION.—Prior to the notification described in paragraph (2), the President shall consult with the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate and the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives in relation to any initiative to suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty.
(2) NOTIFICATION.—The President shall notify the Com- mittee on Foreign Relations of the Senate and the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives in writing of any deliberation or decision to suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty, as soon as possible but in no event later than 180 days prior to taking such action.
(d) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize, imply, or otherwise indicate that the Presi- dent may suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw from any treaty to which the Senate has provided its advice and consent without the advice and consent of the Senate to such act or pursuant to an Act of Congress.
(e) SEVERABILITY.—If any provision of this section or the application of such provision is held by a Federal court to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this subtitle and the application of such provisions to any other person or circumstance shall not be affected thereby.
(f) DEFINITIONS.—In this subtitle, the terms ‘‘withdrawal’’, ‘‘denunciation’’, ‘‘suspension’’, and ‘‘termination’’ have the meaning given the terms in the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, concluded at Vienna May 23, 1969.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2670/text
I do not think it will be effective. This has been done before in exactly the same way and that failed.
