Leaving reddit was a good idea, joining Lemmy, I’m not so sure anymore.
The userbase here is not really diverse in itself, so the whole platform gets this large echo chamber vibe. And with “not diverse” I don’t mean hostile or anything, just very homogeneous. Overwhelmingly left and far left on the political spectrum, embracing all things LGBT+, high nerd & tech factor; and if you don’t belong to or identify with either of those factions, you get downvoted to oblivion, and worse yet, mod removed and banned for no factual reason.
What made reddit strong as a platform was that you had the right kind of diversity and a big enough userbase to not spiral out of control, unless the top management fucked up.
On Lemmy, instance admins are (or become) often the worst offenders, making any interactions with users on their instance tiresome, unless you regurgitate the same stuff that has been said there over and over and over again.
I know this comment could receive some negative feedback, but Lemmy lacks diversity in its userbase, compared to Reddit (or Tumblr in the old times). It’s just a feeling, when I scroll through comments and posts on Lemmy, I picture most of the users as 16-46 yo white males.
EDIT: changed “45” to “46”, see comment below.
there’s no way you could even guess the skin color of a person by reading their comment. i could be a 70-year old asian man for all you care.
maybe because “race” just isn’t discussed as much because it’s also basically a social construct besides minor evolutionary differences.
People of different background have more chance to have a bigger diversity of point of view. You may not be able to guess the background of a single commenter, but you can spot things missing. Also, I wasn’t actually thinking about race, but gender identities and sexual orientations as well.
Race is a social construct that impacts so many people in a very real way. The race that you’re sorted into affects so much of where you can go, what you can do, and how the government treats you.
Younger for me. They’re either pro Palestine or really pro Palestine, which to me is the idealism of youth. I’d say mainly 16-30 first world or equivalent males.
No it’s not. You can say many things about the Israel-Palestinian conflict, but saying being pro-Palestinian is infantile is not one of those.
You can’t say “Hamas are terrorists and Israel isn’t committing genocide” without 3-6 days of some nerd calling you a Nazi, which means your average joe has no interest in being here, because that’s the opinion of the majority of people and the majority of people are not, in fact, nazis.
Posted the bigot using the device created and coded by nerds. Do you fail to realize that “nerd” is what idiots call the smart kids? Of course you do.
Took less than 2 hours lol
This comment will also receive some negative feedback but I don’t care about diversity in my social media platform. I actually want people to enjoy the same things I do, like Linux, technology, geek jokes, etc.
That’s the opposite of diversity I guess. More like a community where people have similar interests. That’s what I like about it.
Um, that isn’t the definition of diversity being used here. They were suggesting some demographic diversity not interest diversity. Unless you are suggesting only young white males are into Linux, technology, geek jokes, etc. In which case, fuck off with that bigotry.
Haha it would be hard to know what everyone looks like behind the keyboards and I don’t care whatsoever. One of the best things about tech culture is that you are judged by what you actually know and how well you can work with others. :)
No, only a subset of young white males are into linux if you exclude trans women
Eh, that is kinda the appeal of Reddit, and its alternatives. Finding smaller communities of likeminded individuals that you can group into a tailored feed.
I always say the magic of this model is that it’s not just a firehose of every possible interest, it’s more like a shower of dozens of tiny handpicked jets. It just happens that on Lemmy, the “All” feed is still reasonably tailored to the main demographic here. That being tech nerds who dislike Reddit’s recent decisions enough to make a change.
Finding smaller communities of likeminded individuals that you can group into a tailored feed. the main demographic here. That being tech nerds who dislike Reddit’s recent decisions enough to make a change.
That’s exactly why I simply cannot not go back to reddit from time to time. Lemmy is nice and all but all communities that are not focused on tech stuff are complete ghost towns. Sure, one could say, that I should create the content and post it here. But I’m simply not that kind of person. I seldom come up with interesting stuff to share, but enjoy interacting with the posts of other people, writing a comment here and there. And I’d say many if not most others are similar.
That’s the vibe I always got from Reddit. But yeah, the vibe I get from Lemmy is that there are two demographics.
19-45 white male tech enthusiast and 19-45 white trans female tech enthusiast.
There’s also the leftists who decide very narrowly what opinions will be tolerated! Don’t forget them!
The only material I’ve seen heavily moderated by leftists is misinformation, regardless of political orientation (although American conservatism is more heavily moderated since much of it IS demonstrably misinformation currently).
I’m willing to be proven wrong if you have any examples you could recommend.
although i’m a white male in the age group i am neither of these… i know you didn’t say everyone is in these groups, just here to represent us anti trans folks who don’t know shit about computers. And they say commenting helps lemmy grow, so i’m doing that too.
“anti trans”
You mean “non trans” (‘cis’ being the technical term), right? “anti trans” implies hostility towards trans folk
I think Lemmy skews towards the younger end though. Of course I could be very mistaken as this impression is entirely unscientific and is based solely on the levels of knowledge and general discourse that are prevalent on Lemmy.
To my eye, a large percentage of Lemmy’s users are both relatively low-information and lacking in real life experience. They also tend to be very ideological which in my experience is something that tends to diminish with age.
Again, I could be very wrong about this.
Which is interesting. On the early days of Digg it was the same demographic, although more politically center. Then in the early days of reddit the same thing happened. It was mostly Linux and tech. So having the same starting demo is not a bad thing, but the question is, will it grow to adopt others
I get more of an impression that lemmy is full of far left leaning programmers. I think that is a good subset of people to have on a social media platform. But if we had more subs on other topics it should bring in other types of people.
The reason you don’t get many “normal” people here is that the community is absurdly hostile to anyone on the “normal person” spectrum.
If you’re not a software-pirating techbro obsessed with “privacy,” a leftist, or a furry, this place generally shits on you.
I very frequently post incredibly lukewarm takes for any mainstream community, and literally get called a Nazi. I have stalkers lol.
I, personally, tend to have “normal” views but significantly more resilience to online communities than “normal” people - which is why I still come here. Most normal people left back before this place even defederated from Hexbear. They ain’t coming back.
Until mods of what are essentially “default” communities get serious about growth instead of wanting “their” spaces, Lemmy is never going to grow. Most people don’t find getting blasted with piss-takes by Marxists funny the way I do.
Case-in-point from this thread
https://lemmy.world/comment/6400270
Oh and one directed at me, right on schedule.
Posted the bigot using the device created and coded by nerds. Do you fail to realize that “nerd” is what idiots call the smart kids? Of course you do.
Maybe you should try jumping on Truth Social and suggesting they’d have a larger userbase if they’re were more tolerant of left wing views?
Why is it always “leftists” who are supposed to welcome any and all political views with a warm mouth?
What exactly are you offering in return besides entitled posts complaining “these people I’m stereotyping with open contempt weren’t nice enough when they replied to my unsolicited opinion with opinions of their own”?
It doesn’t appear to be posts, moderation, money, code or insight.
Your example does not show what you think it does, though. Are you sure you posted the right link?
You hit the nail on the head.
Honestly, I couldn’t even recommend it to anyone in its current state to normal everyday people.
If you have normal, moderate political positions you will get shit on constantly here. Doesn’t help that everything needs to be political on Lemmy.
Meme communities are like 50% “hurr durr normies bad” or “everyone nazi”
Add the Linux circlejerk and that’s about 90% of the content I see on here. I don’t care to engage a lot with that and I just hope more normal people migrate…
If you care about downvotes, then I could see your point about the Fediverse being hostile to some more mainstream opinions. I’ve made some pretty vanilla comments about markets/politics that have gotten downvoted for not being left-wing, but I don’t really care about that.
I’ve never been called a “nazi”, but I don’t go out of my way to antagonize anyone and try to add to the conversation and if my reply is something along the lines of “socialism sucks and you suck” then I don’t post it.
I think what it comes down to though is that the fediverse experience requires some curation and restraint compared to other larger platforms where you can go pretty much unoticed and can pretty much always find a group of people of similarly ideologically minds
I block those people all the time here and it’s made the experience very enjoyable. It’s a small enough community where blocking is highly effective.
But if we had more subs on other topics it should bring in other types of people.
Is that actually desirable or just growth for growths sake? Rage comics and lolcats brought huge numbers of new users to reddit and the quality of content immediately began to decay.
Maybe a social media site that runs out of content is a good thing.
Is that actually desirable or just growth for growths sake?
It’s actually desirable. Without subs on more topics (which should also mean people discussing those topics), Lemmy is not a viable alternative for the people who want to focus on content. And this is particularly relevant for more niche subjects because of how the scale of conversation works. I should know. I created two communities (technically magazines on kbin, but same idea) but until people come to them, I’m mostly fully just waiting there, fingling fingers.
Well, I figure “growth” in this case means increased diversity in communities and users. Maybe it’s a double-edged sword, maybe the quality decay is avoidable - maybe not, idk.
I just think it’d be cool to see things other than linux, lefty, & star trek memes on here sometimes.
It definitely lacks diversity. But at the same time it reminds me of the early internet where we had dedicated forums like IGN. Most people weren’t on these forums nor cared to be there. The problem here is sometimes Lemmy is not welcoming because of the way it is designed. You have to host and run your own instance or join someone else’s instance. That is good because we, the users of Lemmy, own it but bad because we become very protectionists. We want to protect our instance from bad actors but some users take it to the extreme and protect the instance from people who aren’t like them and think differently.
I don’t feel like we’re ever going to get past that until we can make the sign up process very nearly effortless. Reading about signing up for an account on the fediverse can be a lot of new info. Choosing an instance can feel like a lot when new to the fediverse and at the point that it becomes something difficult or confusing, a lot of people just lose interest.
I agree. I am a techie, have been following Lemmy for quite a while before the Reddit exodus. When I made my account, first I had to understand that each instance manages its own accounts and there are many instances. My initial thought was to look for one of the higher population instances, but I read that this was not necessarily the best idea. Then I searched out why its better to pick an instance outside the high population ones and that whatever instance I picked, I could view/comment/vote on posts from other instances. I don’t have a problem doing research, but I don’t know anyone who is not a techie that would continue past my first question, and that is a serious problem for adoption.
That’s how Reddit was for a long time too, and Reddit still is more like that than the other social networks. For whatever reasons that demo is more likely to be early adopters of this kind of platform. Diversity comes with growth.
Because Reddit was made for nerds, until more recently it didn’t try to attract the mass with shiny interfaces and promises of social recognition like FB and Instagram.
This is where the major problem is. Most people simply don’t care about anonymously discussing stuff. It’s always about status. You simply have to show off your flashy avatar and your NFTs.
I mean the whole concept of the fediverse is inherently going to attract the more paranoid of people who don’t want to have big tech down their throat 24/7. The people most aware of this are those that work in/adjacent to big tech, and have enough understanding to be genuinely concerned about the state of the internet. Not that you have to be in tech to use/enjoy the Fediverse, but Lemmy is inherently inconvenient and less content rich than Reddit so it’s going to create more niche/less diverse communities who have common interests.
Tech also has a very large trans demographic compared to the general population, and you can see that reflected on Lemmy too. The whole platform is largely going to reflect tech demographics until it is well known by the general public.
I’m just glad most people here are nice and willing to have open discussions. I’ve seen more threads of people disagreeing and reaching common ground than anywhere else.
I also don’t really want Lemmy to get as big or have the same exact demographic as Reddit. I do want it to get bigger and more diverse than it currently is since there’s still not enough activity (although it’s way way better than it was) and not enough niches. There are only so many star Trek memes I want to see.
One issue with Lemmy is that it’s too anonymous that it doesn’t really support content creators who actually want to be known. I know influencer is a bad word, but platforms do need people to share original content, and there’s less motivation to do really high effort, high quality content when you can’t verify yourself. Lemmy has no lack of memes but nobody is using it as a platform for quality OC that takes more than a few minutes to create. I think that could be fixed by there being an instance dedicated to hosting verified users for people who want a non anonymous account, so when you see a user is from that instance, you know they’re the real deal, and that would encourage content creators to establish a presence. Right now, how am I supposed to know a handle is legit when there are thousands of instances that can have the same usernames, and people can even create their own instance?
Do fledgling communities typically START diversified? I would imagine it always starts this way. You invent the thing. You send it to your like minded friends, they send it to their like minded friends, etc. I feel like diversity inevitably requires time and numbers.
calls Lemmy and Reddit a forum
As a forum user, please don’t…
Forums are so much better than whatever Lemmy and Reddit are, the problem is none exist in the same “everything in the same place and people can create subsections” form.
Oh come on, it’s a forum with voting. Sort comments by old and posts by new and you have forum mode
And discussions that are dead after 24h max.
I take part in discussions that have been going on every day for 10 years + on forums.
And then there are forums like The Goonswarm Forums, where they get pissed when you accidentally “necro” a thread.
That was very rare back when I used forums. But similarly, at least every month I’d have a reply to a 1-2-year-old comment I left in reddit. It happens.
Why don’t we have federated forums then? The technology should be more or less similar.
I wish we did, I think they went out of favour because most people prefer the “speed” of platforms like Reddit, where threads are active for a couple of hours and then something new comes up and a new conversation starts.
The problem is, there’s no accumulation of knowledge, it’s the same arguments and information getting repeated every time a new post is started on a similar subject.
You can’t tell someone “Discussion is already happening on this subject in this thread, so we’re deleting your post” when discussions don’t get bumped to the top and discussions don’t stay active once they’re not on people’s front page anymore.
The threaded replies don’t help either, it’s impossible to keep up with a post that gets a lot of attention since you can have hundreds if not thousands of branches spreading in all directions…
There’s a good reason why specialized discussion platforms all use forums instead a Reddit style system, they want to build a knowledge database and they do, plenty of active threads that are over a decade old on many forums all over the internet!
Because as we learned in our lemmy growing pains, large-scale federation is a challenge that requires a fairly concerted effort and then doesn’t always succeed very well.
People still (rightly) have tons of complaints about lemmy failing to do things as well as reddit did. It has some huge upsides (no center ownership) but it’s a challenge. Now imagine the much-smaller userbase. I knew everyone in the topics I frequented back in my forum days because there were that few people.
lemmyBB exists which lets you view Lemmy as a forum. Seems like all the hosted versions of it are down though, and nutomic is too busy working on the backend to maintain it.
It doesn’t solve the bumping issue though, if the majority of users use “Reddit style” Lemmy then threads become inactive when they’re not in people’s feed anymore, it’s a major point of BBs, discussions are brought back to the front so people continue participating in them long term.
People conflate the two terms because, if I told someone for the last 16 years that Reddit was an aggregator, they looked at me with a blank expression. It’s not a word that is in the common parlance.
It’s also not easily recognizable as an aggregator when you go to subs/communities where there are zero or nearly zero links, and it’s all threads.
They’re honestly more like a hybrid between an aggregator and an oversimplified forum. Most subs I frequented feel like Delphi did back when I grew up.
I understand this comm is about Reddit… But you guys really need to just let it go already. You put so much effort into “owning” Reddit it’s actually kinda sad.
Don’t spend seven months talking about your ex.
This is par for the course though. We shit on Digg for years after everyone had migrated over!
Kbin, on the other hand, has too many issues.
No offense to Kbin’s developer Ernest, who is working hard, but Kbin is still in alpha stage, and it often has server errors (in fact, kbin.social is down right now, and it has been for the whole day), and the userbase and engagement are far behind Lemmy. There are also federation problems between Kbin and Lemmy sometimes. Kbin is also trying to be a more all-in-one product, with both microblogging and forums, and the users there like to have both, which is fine, but Reddit users are mostly forum users and they seem to prefer Lemmy more.
It was not fully down and this completely ignores the issues that Lemmy had when they updated to the next version a while back. Really unnecessary bashing.
But I realized later that this was a misunderstanding on my part, and that this is not an issue as long as the project is open source, with an open development, and as long as you avoid instances like lemmygrad.
Totally not suspicious, but at the minimum a bit ignorant on how open source software development typically goes. And it isn’t just Lemmygrad, but even their allegedly more moderate main instance Lemmy.ml, which is really just more of the same as far as users and moderation issues go. More problematic is the fact though that you’re still supporting the devs and their problematic views simply by supporting their software and its development by directly using it, and this won’t change until a proper fork from actually decent people is going to become the main used Lemmy software.
And overall, no one won this, because the whole protest was a failure as way too many people just remained on Reddit.
Hello I was the one who wrote this write up on r/RedditAlternatives, just to clarify regarding my Kbin remarks, yesterday on January 3rd, kbin was indeed not working properly for the whole day yesterday with errors almost everywhere, even Ernest, the developer behind Kbin acknowledged this and put an announcement even on Mastodon.
But a one day error is not the only reason, in-fact I’ve made several huge and massive contributions to the Kbin community with the creations of m/AskKbin, m/RedditMigration and so on activaly moderating and contributing when it comes to engagement and so on (I even created multiple guides that had huge reach such as “The Redditor’s guide to Kbin” and even published the guide to a website), I spent tons of months solely as a Kbin user - but I was reaching a point where the unstability and immaturity of Kbin was really pushing me to put it down and come to lemmy, especially considering how mature lemmy has become and is surely much more stable than kbin at the moment and has been so in the forseeable past. So maybe it came of as bashing, but to me as someone who actually gave Kbin a chance, it was the hard reality and I had to say it.
Regarding the open source part, I would like to agree to disagree with you there, sure you are still using Lemmy regardless of the instance and the development is still done by the same devs that led to such concerns, this was exactly my reason to stay away from lemmy and go to Kbin, but now I’ve realized that open source actually helps keep the developers in check as in that they will obviously know that if they do something against the users here and let’s say, push some of their idealogoies in some way hypothetically, there will be a huge chance someone will fork Lemmy and use that as an opportunity to take away the users, this is the advantage of open source, the possibility of forking a project helps keep the original project in check and when it comes to moderation or censorship, this instance is not moderated by the same people behind lemmy.ml or lemmygrad either.
Well, Reddit was open source once as well. Neither going closed source nor all the various scandals, including the last big protest, did a whole lot in changing anything at all.
I think comparing that era and this era is a mistake, besides if Lemmy lets say goes closed source which is EXTREMELY unlikely to happen, someone will not make the mistake again to not fork it to keep an open source version going.
besides it’s not just open source, it is also the FEDIVERSE, this is the most important, this platform is federated and decentralized unlike Reddit ever was as it has always been centralized by design. Both Lemmy and Reddit are very different from design here.
