Can someone please calmly explain how blocking a freeway across an ocean and a country on a different continent, is supposed to have any effect on a political issue in the middle east?
The idea is of course to bring attention to the fact that the US is funding Israel and giving them weapons. We also have some pull in the world and if we wanted to make it a thing, we could no doubt get all support for them in the area put on hold until they turned their shit around and stopped shooting/bombing anyone not in an IDF uniform.
Some pull? The US is funding this war. Israel is getting so much in free money from your taxes it should make you sick to your stomach
I said some pull because the UK and others would still need to get on board to do a blanket “cease-fire if you want aid” type statement. The US alone would only be a bump for them, but since they already have weapons they have bought from us for years, and aid coming in from other countries it would mean they wouldn’t need to pay any attention right away.
Because the US has a massive hand in that political issue in the middle east.
If I was American I would also be livid, like what the fuck are you guys doing
Also the even more direct fact that Israel exists primarily to provide the US control over middle eastern oil. It’s an air base and port and provides air space through which to it can attack countries in the region. The constant war carried out by Israel against neighbors and within it’s own border destabalizes the region, making it easier to maintain US supported authoritarians.
Making life harder for people in cars is actually direct action against one of the root causes of the genocide. If you are in a car, you are complicit in genocide.
The US has no shortage of air bases in the Middle East. I find it difficult to believe Israel is of particular importance for that reason.
Not all anti-Israel commentary is antisemitic…but this sure as hell is.
Israel exists primarily to provide the US control over oil in the region? That’s its purpose for existing?
That argument shows complete disregard for the millions of Jews living there and the sequence of events that led to the need for a sovereign Jewish state in the first place
This seems like conflating purpose and reason, or current function.
Israel acts independently and has it’s own interests, which sometimes conflict with US interests, but often align. The US continues to prop Israel up because it needs access to the region.
Saying that the British and later Americans used Jews in the same way they used Scotch Irish or other marginalized people to colonize land they wanted to control by proxy is just a statement about history. It would be anti-semetic to suggest that Israel is somehow able to manipulate the US in to funding and arming it, rather than the relationship going primarily the opposite direction… As the US does with it’s many other proxies all over the world. It would be anti-semetic to suggest that Israel is somehow unique in being funded and supported by the US without being part of US global strategy. If we can accept that Israel is just another US proxy, then we ask, “given the local geopolitics, would Israel exist without US support?”
The history of persecution that allowed the British and Americans to exploit Jews to colonize Palestine isn’t what my post was about. I can understand the confusion. I assume it was in good faith.
You’re straight up being antisemitic, equating an apartheid state to jewishness
Disagreeing with Israeli government atrocities? Must be the next fucking Hitler.
The people delayed in traffic on the other hand have zero influence. And more than likely are now massive Israel supporters due to being so pissed off by the protesters.
The economy being affected by the protest does, though. But setting aside the effectiveness of this method of protesting, lemme just quote MLK here.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
This is your attitude now.
Except this quote could quite easily be used to justify absolutely any method of achieving a goal
A lot of what these protests are trying to do is make it harder to ignore the reality of what is happening.
Now I agree these kind of protests don’t gain support. But they’re not trying to win support: they’re trying to make people aware of the problem as one that shosuldn’t be ignored.
The gamble is the cause is important enough and sympathetic enough that forcing people to be aware of it might get people towards political action. Even if it is just calling their representstive and going ‘wtf’.
For Americans every dollar we earn at work and every cent of tax we pay is a contributing factor in the conflict. But many are aware and think that is just fine. That is my personal concern with this protest: a lot of Americans are completely stoked about it and protesting just makes them shrug and go ‘purple hairs lol’.
One could argue that blocking a freeway causes some negative economic impact. There are a number of US defense contractors who are profiting nicely from Israel’s recent military mobilization. This could be a message to the military industrial complex that “we the people” can grind things to a halt if we need to.
Personally I’m not a fan of blocking freeways as a form of protest, there’s just too much risk of affecting something time sensitive like an ambulance, organ transplant, etc. But I also empathize with the protestors, they probably feel strongly (as do I) that the violence needs to stop, and they feel helpless. There’s a lot of drive to make things right, and no real way to do that other than making a statement.
I see this argument every time a protest is held.
Can you name the number of times an emergency vehicle like an ambulance was blocked with a negative consequence from a blockade protest and divide it by the number of times such protests have occurred in the US?
I want to know what your threshold of “too much risk” means in terms of empirical data.
Yeah, I think the fact that highway blockages are viewed so divisively only points to how effective they are. They have economic impact and are hugely visible – I think they’re one of the most effective non-violent direct action tactics available, though the participants should prepare to have the book thrown at them.
I think they should be treated as harshly as police who harass and assault people - there should be an internal investigation by other protestors, and if suspicion is found they should be forced to go on leave from work with full pay until the investigation concludes they were only doing what they were trained to do.
I most certainly cannot. I wouldn’t even know where to start to find that data. I’m not sure it’s ever happened, nor if it’s something that would even be tracked/documented in any meaningful way. Tons of random things can delay something like an ambulance - car crashes, inclement weather, rush hour, etc.
My point was not that freeway-blocking protests are inherently bad, just that my feelings of the potential for negative impacts to innocent “bystanders” stress me out. I am not a fan of freeway-blocking protests for the same reason that I am not a fan of icy roads.
Now, is a freeway-blocking protest effective? Depends on how you quantify effectiveness. Was awareness raised? (Probably.) Were the lives of Gaza’s residents improved? (Probably not.) Would some other protest format have been more effective? (Probably not.) Are any protests really that effective when our government answers to billionaires instead of citizens? (Doubt it.) Does that mean we should lay down and accept mistreatment of our fellow humans? (Fuck no!)
So in theory you would have a much bigger problem with people who tailgate, exceed the speed limit, and fail to signal when changing lanes, or who fail to admit in people on lane merges, right? I’m pretty sure that, just at a raw numbers level, these kinds of things (along with the more obvious ones like texting while driving) cause far more traffic delays than the occasional protest.
Do you have a history of complaining about traffic violations in general, or is it just for people protesting for social justice?
Look, I know I’m slamming you and you don’t deserve it. I know it sounds like I’m attacking you personally, and that is not my intent. What I’m trying to draw attention to, however clumsily, is that this sort of narrative gets passed around very easily, even among the most well meaning of people. It’s regularly mentioned in the right wing media, and even in centrist media like the NYT. I’ve just worked on propaganda models for too long to not occasionally say something.
So your numerator is 1. What’s your denominator? Let’s call it the number of street blocking protests in the last ten years.
In addition, the article doesn’t mention any ill effects coming from the delay, so we should probably be using a weighted function for this to see when it had an actual medical consequence.
FWIW, this is one of the most common forms of protest in Seattle since BLM. It’s not necessarily newsworthy to us locals! And yes, to confirm, most people in the city get pretty annoyed with protestors when it happens. A lot of people late to work, missing medical appointments, stranded with kids in the car, etc.
Eh we did it back protesting invading Iraq. Didn’t do anything then.
But Seattle wasn’t Amazon back then.
No, we didn’t stop the war. I marched with 300k people in Washington (a lot of veterans) and we still didn’t stop the war. But I think the widespread and global protests of the Iraq war made it clear that the US was going to wage war despite its unpopularity, evidence, allies backing out, etc. A similar thing appears to be happening now with the backlash to Israel’s Hamas response.
Here’s a good column about what those protests writ large “accomplished.” https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/20-year-anniversary-of-iraq-war-protests
People who work on ambulances love when protestors close roads like this.
Ambulances have dispatch to warn and redirect them, and sirens to force their way down the shoulder to an exit. Effective protest has to have an effect.
Blocking roads is not an effective protest, and rerouting ambulances is not as simple as you make it sound. I used to work dispatch, I would know.
Last time I was held up by these people, I was on my way to try to pick up my dog’s cancer medication. So no, I don’t sympathize with them.
My dog’s cancer medication is more important than the wars in the Middle East, too
Will that’s the point of protests to remind people like you that there are a genocide happening and you government is supporting it.
It’s all performative. Everybody knows what’s happening there. They didn’t bring attention to the genocide; they brought attention to themselves.
