Globally, only one in 50 new cars were fully electric in 2020, and one in 14 in the UK. Sounds impressive, but even if all new cars were electric now, it would still take 15-20 years to replace the world’s fossil fuel car fleet.

The emission savings from replacing all those internal combustion engines with zero-carbon alternatives will not feed in fast enough to make the necessary difference in the time we can spare: the next five years. Tackling the climate and air pollution crises requires curbing all motorised transport, particularly private cars, as quickly as possible. Focusing solely on electric vehicles is slowing down the race to zero emissions.

7 points

We observed around 4,000 people living in London, Antwerp, Barcelona, Vienna, Orebro, Rome and Zurich.

There’s the problem. These articles always come off sounding tone deaf to me, because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of people that don’t live in big cities. There are a fuck load of people that don’t live within a 15 minute drive of a grocery store. People that have multiple kids that go to school and have after school activities 10+ miles from their house. People that live more than 25 miles away from where they work.

I realize the authors might have good intentions, but when I hear articles that basically say “your EV isn’t good enough, you need to ride a bike” I can’t help but think “oooooh fuck off.” Not everyone lives in a city. Not everyone wants to live in a city. An EV is the best option I have, so quit giving me shit for it.

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3 points

The article isn’t saying that your EV isn’t good enough. It is informing how to make public policy. It is a statistical report. Kudos to you for decreasing your emissions.

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12 points

Big cities have highes amount of cars per population. At least in my country.

more than 25 miles away from where they work.

I think you see the problem.

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5 points

Yeah big cities have become unaffordable, especially when it comes to raising a family. The idea of paying twice my current mortgage payment for something a quarter of the size just doesn’t appeal to me.

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6 points

An inconvenient truth

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4 points

Sure, but EVs are solving the wrong problem.

I live in a similar situation as you, about 25 miles from work, 3-4 miles to my kids school along busy roads, and about a mile to the nearest grocery store (not bad). For me, cycling makes little sense (I do it though from time to time) because there are no cycle paths where I need to go, they only go to recreational places.

People driving EVs doesn’t solve the actual problem, which is cities designed around cars instead of pedestrians. What we need isn’t more efficient cars, but more efficient ways to get around.

Think about where you live. Imagine a train connecting your city center to downtown, and cycle paths feeding into the train network. Replace some of the through roads with bus and pedestrian/cyclist-only traffic, and force cars to go around your city (i.e. no through roads). That way, you’d have two options to get to work/school/etc, on a bike/bus/train, or going the long way in your car. If the direct route (train) is competitive with the car, you’d probably take that option instead.

Getting people to ride bikes more isn’t the end goal here, the goal is to show cities, counties, and states that there is demand for better transit, and that a shift away from cars is possible and even wanted. That’s the goal here, not to use bicycles as the solution by itself and vilify cars. Cars will have their place, but that place should be at the outside of cities on longer trips (e.g. that 25+ mile commute, road trips, etc), not on grocery runs or whatever. If we remove a lot of the roads, we’ll have space for stores closer to where people live. That’s the goal.

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5 points

people live in cities though, here in sweden 82% of the population lives in an urban area, and HALF our population lives in the 3 major cities. Complaining about ignoring rural people is absolutely pointless as it’s hugely more likely that anyone reading the articles is living within moped distance of their job.

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28 points

This is a very simplistic solution to a really complicated question. I say this as a cyclist myself.

Cycling is great for short commuter trips. But it doesn’t replace long trips at all, not practically anyway.

Cycling, while great for your health, consumes extra calories that you wouldn’t otherwise have to expend. That extra food has its own carbon footprint. Depending on your diet and where it comes from, that extra carbon footprint can actually be quite significant.

Cycling reduces congestion. No argument there.

Even if you cycle, you are probably cycling to local stores that have their merchandise driven in on big trucks. It’s still probably more efficient this way, but far from net zero. Remember that the environment you live in is still mostly powered by gas guzzling equipment. That equipment will need to be electrified.

And that’s my point. Cycling is not a one size fits all solution. It is one piece of a much bigger puzzle.

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15 points

Cycling is great for short commuter trips. But it doesn’t replace long trips at all, not practically anyway.

Depends on what “long trip” means. 20km? 50km? 500km?

Sure, a bike isn’t ideal for “long trips”, but it’s easily integrated into other forms of public transportation, which is also better for society than having more EVs.

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10 points

Sure, a bike isn’t ideal for “long trips”, but it’s easily integrated into other forms of public transportation, which is also better for society than having more EVs.

You nailed it. I’m mostly WFH, but twice a week, I have to go into the office which is ~110km away. Fortunately, there’s a train between the two cities and the station is 750m from the office, so it’s a nice 10min walk. My home, on the other hand, is 3.5km from the station and that walk takes 45min even if I’m booking it. On a bike, it’s a reasonable 12min ride.

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Honestly this, 100%.

My bike can easily get me to & around the nearby city, no problem at all. Bulky shopping? Not an issue, I have pannier bags.

Long distance trips though? Absolutely no chance. They require some planning and pre booking bike spaces on the long distance train, mainly because our public transport has been turning into a mess. It’s been on a steady decline with prices on the increase, and its not really an attractive option anymore.

I won’t be giving up my bicycle, but I have eaten the forbidden fruit and started learning how to drive, since it’s the only alternative to bridge the ~200mi journey between here and the people I care about. I dislike it a lot, and it’s actually quite stressful being behind the wheel, compared to just relaxing on a bus or train. Even riding on my bicycle is much less stressful.

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13 points
*

Trains cycling and walking can do by far a huge amount of transport needs. Just look at Japan.

No one is saying it will fix 100% of all issues, they are just saying its such a huge part of it even if you took half the funding of cars and put it to bikes it would solve so so much.

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7 points

Exactly. And if people cycle more regularly, cities will adjust infrastructure to accommodate them. And that includes more than just cycling infrastructure, but trains, buses, etc.

Ideally, we push to get that infrastructure done now to help build that positive feedback loop.

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34 points

Cycling is not the solution. It’s infrastructure.

I would love a walkable city. But I can’t afford housing close to the city. The bus or train system isn’t strong enough or convenient enough. Our country are set up for cars. Housing prices are set up for people to drive further to live.

Have affordable housing near the places I work and I won’t need to drive. Stop blaming people for living their lives around a broken infrastructure. Stop cramming bicycles down our throats. We are not the problem.

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10 points

We are not the problem.

Then what is the problem?

The infrastructure

And who built the infrastructure?

We did.

👉

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4 points

I’m sick of people blaming the people. I’m sick of people trying to shove bicycles down our throats like THAT will fix the issue.

My comment was in response to the blaming of the people and pushing cycling as the solution. This article should be, how do we influence better zoming laws. How we do improve the city infrastructure.

We do vote. Every election cycle. We do what we can with our few voices.

The sooner we stop upvoting these shit articles the sooner we can fix the actual issue.

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19 points

“we” is used very liberally here. I had no say in the planning, implementation, or even the allocation of funds for the current infrastructure. In fact, most of it has existed since before I was born.

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3 points

most of it has existed since before I was born.

I’m sure a lot of things existed before you were born.

There were also a lot of things that didn’t exist before you were born.

Change da world, my final message. Good bye.

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4 points

You’ve also been able to vote in a few local elections along the way, yeah? Where I’m at there are often candidates who champion bicycle infrastructure, and it’s not a new phenomenon. More often than not they’re mocked and not elected. I imagine my city isn’t unique in that.

So yea, WE are to blame.

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2 points

Yeah cars aren’t part of the solution at all

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2 points

Cars are just the “effect” of the “cause”. Vote in your local elections for better zoning laws and stop upvoting these shit articles that blame the people.

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1 point

We won’t fix the problem until they are gone

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1 point

They certainly are, they just need to go around city centers instead of through. Cars make a ton of sense for longer trips (way better than an empty bus), they don’t make sense downtown.

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67 points

I don’t doubt this at all.

But it’s going to be 10 degreees Fahrenheit on my way to work tomorrow.

Public transit that doesn’t double my commute time is what’s going to get me to stop driving. Not a bike.

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-2 points
*

But it’s going to be 10 degreees Fahrenheit on my way to work tomorrow.

So what? It was like 13 °F here in Atlanta a few days ago and my wife biked to work anyway. And that’s in the South, where we’re not used to it!

If she can deal with it, you have no excuse.

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7 points
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How far is work for her?

Regardless of the weather, biking would turn a 25 min drive into an 1hr 25min ride. I’m already not gonna do that.

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-2 points

Now you’re just moving the goalposts.

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5 points
*

I agree with you that better mass transit is needed as much or more than bike infrastructure, but I want to check one of your assumptions.

I bike 9 miles to work every day in 38 minutes, the car trip is 20-25 minutes due to traffic. The key is an e-bike. I’ve put 3k miles on the bike and at this point it has paid for itself and then some. Cars are expensive to drive, maintain, and purchase. My wife and I share a car and I supplement it with an e-bike. Considering she was considering getting an expensive new car before we started sharing, we’ve probably saved $40-50k in the last 3 years by removing a car from the equation. (Cost of car, insurance, maintenance, energy use per mile).

E-bikes use such a tiny amount of electricity, I’ll probably only use two tanks of gas worth of energy in it’s lifetime, maybe less.

Over the course of the next 15-20 years, repeatedly buying and maintaining one less car will likely shave several years off retirement and the biking will keep me healthy in the meantime.

Edit: Like you I overestimated the burden of riding a bike before I tried to make it work. Now that I’m doing it, it’s almost entirely a positive outcome.

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41 points

Why Canadians Can’t Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)

Tens of thousands of people cycle year round in Montreal.

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-1 points

Cool, what about those who don’t live within biking distance?

My work is 37 km of rural highway from my house. I biked it once years ago, took me 1h45m one way. Not a reasonable option.

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27 points

Cool. What about all those people who live within 5km of where they need to go, and are generally alone in the car.

Just because it doesn’t apply to you in particular doesn’t mean you can’t support and champion a cause that would help in the grand scheme of things.

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5 points

Yes, biking 37km each way is pretty extreme. However, if you haven’t already, I’d suggest questioning whether you should be making some changes in your life. Using rough calculations for a fairly efficient & economical car ($0.25CAD/km for gas, maintenance, and depreciation), your commute is costing you $18.50CAD/day (more if you drive an SUV/Truck)! That means if you could move closer to work so you could bike, you could pay an additional $350/mo in housing and still be ahead. Or, you could look for a new job that pays $4,600/year less net (probably ~$6,500/year gross) and be ahead. And if you could give up your car completely, those numbers could more than double!!

It’s possible after reviewing the numbers, you’ll conclude that it’s not worth it to make any changes in your life, and that’s fine! Work in agricultural and other rural industries is important. It’s just that so many people aren’t even ware how much their 20min commute costs them, let alone what it costs their local government (roads aren’t cheap) or the environment in general.

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12 points

If you’re still interested in long-distance commuting by bike, an e-bike is worth considering.

You’d likely get to work in “around” an hour with little effort. The cost savings from not having to buy gas for those distances would easily offset the cost of the bike + electricity used for charging.

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-1 points

Here in Nova Scotia, I’m not gear up to ride when slush is falling from the sky and the bike lanes don’t get cleared.

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11 points

You’re literally describing the issue the video is talking about: infrastructure.

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5 points

I watched the video and it had a huuuge hole in its argument.

It basically said one of the key issues is snow removal, then conveniently doesn’t mention how Canada gets more 4X the amount of snow than the Netherlands… Canada doesn’t remove snow as often cause there is more of it…

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5 points

The video is about how people in Finland still cycle.

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7 points

I live in Montréal. Commute by bike daily. And the city removes snow just fine. Even from bike lanes.

I had a similar experience in Toronto for the years I lived there. But Montréal is better at clearing bike paths.

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8 points

I’m surprised NJB didn’t bring up the point of slush that much, but studded tires might help solve that problem, and this issue is tied up in poor winter maintenance of bike paths. The scariest part for biking in places like Toronto is the potential to slide out into vehicle traffic.

The other day I was going over snow dumps up to my knees like taking a BMX track in a commuter bike…

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3 points

slush is a problem of bad snow clearing, if you don’t have snow on the bike paths then there will be no slush come warmer weather.

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14 points

Tampere has improved a lot in the last few years in terms of cycling infrastructure, I now commute by bike all year round, even when it was under -23°C for two weeks at the beginning of this year.

There could definitely be more improvements as segregated bike lane coverage can sometimes be a bit patchy still.

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8 points

It’s not strictly speaking impossible to bike in below-freezing temperatures, although I’ll concede that it’s definitely not as fun as it is in spring/summer/autumn-conditions. It requires winter tyres and dressing approximately the same as for comparable winter sports, with more emphasis on warmer dressing for the extremeties. Hands in particular are very exposed when riding in winter, doubling up the gloves is a wise choice.

Note that winter biking doesn’t have to replace every trip to be useful - I don’t commute by bike in the current conditions, as transit is just a much better alternative during this season. I still use my bike to go shopping and for some other trips, further supporting the possibility of not having to own a car.

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7 points

Ice, salt, snowbanks narrowing the road surface. I haven’t seen a bicycle in months and I understand why.

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1 point

It’s definitely not as pleasant, and the required prep has led to a culture of not biking during winter conditions in many places.

Ice is often not a problem with studded tires - it can be, but it’s rarely been my primary concern when out and about. Loosely packed snow - the kind where you sink down a bit - has been far more problematic.

Salt is a double-edged sword in many ways. It will corrode your bike a lot faster, so being good about cleaning becomes more important in winter, and you might want to have a separate winter-bike for the purpose. Salt improves road conditions as far as bikes are concerned though, making it on balance a good thing for the winter biker.

Snow banks narrowing the road surface is also a bit problematic in some places, in particular where there is no bike infrastructure in place. Taking the lane can be necessary in some cases.

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2 points

And on the flip side of things, I live in Florida and biking as a primary method of transportation in the summer is just insane.

I do bike for exercise in the summer and 15 minutes will leave me drenched in sweat needing a shower.

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3 points

Token recommendation for an ebike. It’s awesome to be able to use a throttle on the scorching hot days, and lately I don’t really use the throttle since it’s cool

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28 points

-12.2 °C

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13 points

Cycling, outside of the few separated bike trails, is a death wish in TX.

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2 points

That’s a car problem, solved by the removal of said cars.

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9 points

That’s because Texas was built wrong. The solution is to fix it, not push cars instead of bikes.

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3 points

No one pushed cars. Kindly do not assume things no one stated.

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2 points

I was speaking generally, not about the people in this thread in particular.

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1 point

they literally ripped out the streetcars in a conspiracy and got a slap on the wrist fine. cars were absolutely pushed down out throats., why do you think it’s so hard to choose not to use one even if you want to?

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3 points

Most of the south TBH. Even in my southern college town which was actually designed around bike infrastructure, I had to stop because I kept getting hit.

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11 points

What do you mean? You can use the sidewalks that randomly end for no reason, use bridges with 3ft of space right next to the car lane, and oblivious drivers on their phones using the whole lane and some of the next.

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3 points

It’s Texas, so do what Texans do best: force others to recognize your space. Take the lane, or get something like this, up to you if you want to stick something sharp on the end :) But you may want to be armed if you go the more aggressive route.

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4 points

And it is against the Law to ride a Bicycle on the Sidewalk here.

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4 points

I walk as much as possible in Texas, but I would never ride a bike. Seeing how drivers are everywhere I have lived here beat that notion out of me.

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Bicycles

!bicycles@lemmy.ca

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