“There have been racial barriers, and it has been challenging to be accepted as Japanese.”
That’s what a tearful Carolina Shiino said in impeccable Japanese after she was crowned Miss Japan on Monday.
The 26-year-old model, who was born in Ukraine, moved to Japan at the age of five and was raised in Nagoya.
She is the first naturalised Japanese citizen to win the pageant, but her victory has re-ignited a debate on what it means to be Japanese.
While some recognised her victory as a “sign of the times”, others have said she does not look like what a “Miss Japan” should.
Locking the thread… This is one of those stories that as soon as I saw it, my gut reaction was “Oh, no good will come from this.”
Lots of reports, overt racism, covert racism, comments removed, users banned…
Saving you from yourselves. This is why we can’t have nice things.
Buttttt, she no looky japaneseee.
Funny how ethic actors face the same kinds of issues.
She grew up in Japan. All her friends are Japanese. Her life experience is of Japanese society and culture. She’s been through it all. What is she if not Japanese? Get over it.
I am part Japanese myself and the language is literally my mother tongue, but when I go to Japan to visit family, I always feel alienated because I don’t look the part. Don’t get me wrong. People are very polite to foreigners, but you will always be a foreigner. Even when I spent a year at a Japanese elementary school, I felt this persistent sense of not belonging.
But maybe things are starting to change? I admittedly have not been back in a couple of decades. I hope so.
If someone were to look up images of a Japanese person, they would be very confused to find pictures of a white person. Yes they are Japanese culturally, but not physically or genetically. These are what the pageants are about, not everything needs to be inclusive of all aspects. It ruins the intents of it.
What the heck are you talking about. Beauty pageants aren’t about ethnicity. This is farrrrr from the first time that a pageant winner is a different ethnicity than the predominant ethnicity of a country.
Yes everything gets whitewashed and entire culture gets forced out again.
Why is it that native Americans had to go and make their own pageant so they weren’t forgotten?
“Japanese” means something, unlike American. When you hear Japanese, you don’t think white person, same with (Native) American. See how I had to specify so you know which? Same thing is happening with these pageants.
It isn’t called a genetics pagent. Beauty is already subjective enough without layering your myopic view of race on top of it.
It becomes genetic when you bring race into it “miss” “Japanese/japan” “Ukraine/ukrainian” they also have to show knowledge of their culture, race, language, etc. the beauty is a tiny fraction of it. But let’s make it the largest part of our argument….
But hey, apparently I’m the myopic one….
Call it the beauty pageant of Japan if you don’t want to bring anything but beauty into it… not up to them, do it yourself if you want to put your culture on them.
Ah yes, the futile desperation to maintain “racial purity”, because that’s never turned out badly for anyone ever… 🙄🙄🙄
How well did that work out for Native Americans…? They were so overtaken they were forgotten lmfao.
Not everything needs to be whitewashed, just look at native Americans, they’ve already even forgotten and this happened to them. History repeats itself….
They can always go and make their own inclusive pageant, instead of the reverse happening in every country. Since they are more or less forced to be inclusive and give up their heritage so they aren’t protested by people who don’t understand.
My neighbor who was born in Pakistan and moved to the USA in 3rd grade, and now has a kid going to school with mine, is more American than I’ll ever be tbh.
his moms brisket samosas are dope as fuck and ought to be enshrined in a immigrant fusion cookbook
Japan has had a long history of being insular, putting it lightly, so this is big regardless of how you look at it
Time for a bunch of westerners to fit their round peg in this square hole.
The issue isn’t really where she was born - even if she had been born in Japan, she still wouldn’t be ethnically Japanese. The general idea in the USA seems to be that living in America is what makes someone an American, and this is a way of defining national identity that works well in an era of large-scale immigration. However, it’s not how people generally define their identity. For example, I was born in Ukraine and my ancestors all lived in Ukraine for centuries, but I don’t think of myself as Ukrainian and they didn’t think of themselves as Ukrainian; they identified themselves and were identified by their neighbors as members of a different ethnic group.
I’m not sure where I’m going with that - I empathize with how this woman must be hurt by the criticism her victory is receiving because I came to the USA when I was about as old as she was when she came to Japan and if I were rejected from the community of Americans then I wouldn’t have another community to go to, but I also empathize with people who think that being Japanese is about more than just living in Japan and following Japanese customs because I was raised to believe that about my own identity.
were identified by their neighbors as members of a different ethnic group.
There’s simply nothing good that comes from this, except a comforting sense of superiority from any majority group, that is not necessarily deserved.
We have Amish here in the US, that have lived cloistered lives for centuries now, keeping to their own culture. But when you meet one out-and-about, you don’t necessarily immediately jump to “Amish”, even though they are pretty recognizable. They’re just accepted, as a normal part of American society in this area, that belongs. Their Amish identity is simply not very important, nothing important comes from focusing on it. Since they’re common, you just get used to them.
There’s simply nothing good that comes from this
Oh, it was certainly very bad for my ancestors, but the lesson there isn’t “It’s better to assimilate,” but rather “Even if you do everything to assimilate, your neighbors won’t accept you, so remember that you’re different. At least that way, you’ll be prepared.”
Since [the Amish are] common, you just get used to them.
I wouldn’t say that - IMO, since the Amish are very rare, they’re seen as an amusing curiosity rather than as any sort of threat. If they really were common, there probably would have been more hostility.
Culture is place-based. It’s about how the geography and food and local population and local religious practices shape you and it is constantly evolving because all of those things change over time. It is not genetic. As japan welcomes more immigrants those immigrants will indeed shift the culture in certain ways because there is a new group of people. Pageants are about cultural celebration, and Japan is celebrating their culture with this beautiful woman who calls it home.
However, it’s not how people generally define their identity. For example, I was born in Ukraine and my ancestors all lived in Ukraine for centuries, but I don’t think of myself as Ukrainian and they didn’t think of themselves as Ukrainian
I think this is kinda the point, that the way ethnicities define themselves are typically based on a misunderstanding of genetics and a bygone definition of race.
I for example am half Korean and half Czech, according to how both those ethnicities self identify I don’t really qualify for either. To my Korean family I’m a tall white guy who looks kinda Korean, To my Czech family I’m just a very big Korean dude.
I personally think that ethnicity and culture should be shared, and that gate keeping culture based on antiquated ideologies like race just perpetuates our worse tribal instincts.
Of course that could be some implicit biases coming out to play. If I believed that ethnic purity was a beneficial quality, I’d be in trouble.
To add, diversity is beneficial in basically all aspects of nature. A natural land that isn’t biodiverse is prone to disease and competition for resources. Purebred pets tend to be more prone to disease and complications than “mutts”. “Ethnic purity” is such a self centered and stupid virtue for someone to have in this day and age.
Furthermore, a lot of cultural traditions like food and music are meant to be shared with others, and locking yourself out of that because of some ass backwards view is a disservice to oneself.
Racists confuse the hell out of me
Yeah, unlike a melting pot such as the US, countries like Japan are relatively ethnically homogeneous, and no matter how fluent you are in the language or how long you’ve lived there, you’ll always be a gaijin (foreigner), especially if you look way different (i.e. western). Fortunately, I think as the newer generation slowly takes over, large-scale immigration nowadays is getting more accepted as the world becomes more interconnected.
